Mark Kozelek has never cared about his fans.
All right, maybe that’s not fair; I can’t say how the guy feels. He probably cares but he just expresses it poorly or something. Let’s put it this way: Mark Kozelek has always treated his fans like shit. In any case, it’s an abusive relationship, and it has always been.
To be clear: I don’t mean this to be read as an accusation — rather, it’s an explanation. The “All you fucking hillbillies” thing? That’s just who he is; that’s how he is with every audience. You talk at a Mark Kozelek show — you take a picture, request a song, whatever — you’re gonna get the stick. Hell, you don’t have to do any of those things. The last time I saw him was in 2010, at Brooklyn’s Music Hall Of Williamsburg, which is a pretty big room — and it was totally sold out — but the crowd was silent, motionless, reverent. And he still trashed us! “Williamsburg is a town of clones,” he said from the stage, between songs. “Like they just cloned themselves from everyone who just walked by.”
By “they,” of course, he meant “you.” That is: us. Anyone who cares enough to actually turn out to see Mark Kozelek is, in his eyes, deserving of mockery. He’s sung about it! It’s in the song “Sunshine In Chicago,” from Sun Kil Moon’s 2012 release, Among The Leaves. He was comparing the crowds who came out in the ’90s for his old band, Red House Painters, to his crowds today: Back then, there were “lots of female fans, and fuck, they all were cute/ Now I just sign posters for guys in tennis shoes.”
For the record, I mostly wear skateboard shoes, and I’ve never asked Mark Kozelek to sign a poster. I mean, I’ve thought about it, but let’s be real here: Which poster would I even choose to have him sign? I could never decide! I have the original label-issued promotional posters for every single Red House Painters album, plus ones for the first two Sun Kil Moon albums, plus ones for All Virgos Are Mad (a 1994 compilation that included a Red House Painters song), Shanti Project Collection (a 1999 compilation that included four Red House Painters songs), and Take Me Home (a 2000 compilation of John Denver covers, curated by Kozelek, that included two Red House Painters songs, plus another track on which Kozelek duets with Slowdive’s Rachel Goswell). I have others, too; I’m sure I do. I stopped collecting the posters years before I stopped going to his shows, but in one of these boxes, somewhere around here, I have a couple more that I’m just not recalling right now. I have everything. I spent a little more than a decade tracking down and obtaining pretty much every shred of Mark Kozelek-related esoterica in the world: old 4AD promotional materials; zines in which he was interviewed; the Mojave 3 song “Krazy Koz“; the records he produced for Hannah Marcus in the late ’90s (which, by the way, are devastating). Heck, in 2003, I visited San Francisco for a week — my first time ever seeing the city — and I spent more or less the whole vacation just finding places called out by name in Kozelek’s songs: Grace Cathedral Park, Priest Alley, Golden Gate Elementary, the place “where Mission Street bends,” Telegraph Hill (home to “Lily & Parrots”) …
Oh hey, wait a sec — I had totally forgotten about my favorite Kozelek poster of all! That one is behind glass, though, and as such, it is un-signable. It’s one of those expensive hand-screened gig posters; it was a Christmas gift, given to me in 2004 by my then-girlfriend, Jenn. In the same batch of presents, actually, was a copy of Nights Of Passed Over, a beautiful hardcover book collecting the lyrics to every song Kozelek had written to that point. That was our second Christmas together, and Jenn knew how much I loved Mark Kozelek. I think that’s why, seven years later, she was so receptive to my request that the first dance at our wedding be set to a Mark Kozelek song. (Well, a Genesis song, as covered by Mark Kozelek.)
Yes, footwear aside, I am exactly one of those people Mark Kozelek so casually dismisses with such sardonic indifference: a devoted, deeply indebted fan.
I first heard Mark Kozelek in 1993, when I bought Red House Painters’ self-titled sophomore album (the “Rollercoaster” album, as it’s known by fans), after reading Jim Greer’s review of the record in Spin Magazine. I clipped that review, and I still have it — folded up and hidden inside the CD insert — but I’ve read it so many times that I know lines from it by heart: “obsessional work that demands obsessional listening”; “Kozelek’s lovely voice floats like a particularly melancholic angel”; “what My Bloody Valentine might sound like if the band could sing or write songs.”
I loved that album, but I loved a lot of albums that year, and “Rollercoaster” was but one of many. It took another two years for things to get obsessional. That happened in early 1995, after attending an autograph session with the late Peter Steele, of Type O Negative, at the now-defunct None Of The Above Records, in Centereach, Long Island. Someone in the room asked Steele if he’d heard any good new bands, and he told us, those days, he was listening to nothing but Red House Painters.
That endorsement caused me to go back to “Rollercoaster,” and its companion, “Bridge,” and RHP’s 1992 debut, Down Colorful Hill — and suddenly, I too was listening to nothing else. A couple months after the Peter Steele event, Red House Painters released their third album, Ocean Beach. Since that day, Ocean Beach has been my go-to, absolute, unequivocal, default Favorite Album Of All Time. And for the better part of the last 20 years, whenever anyone has asked me to name my favorite band, my answer has been Red House Painters, or Sun Kil Moon, or Mark Kozelek, under whatever moniker he chooses.
That means I have spent a wildly inordinate percentage of that better part of the last 20 years listening to and thinking about and worrying about Mark Kozelek. In the ’90s, Red House Painters were not a commercially or even critically successful band. (Spin didn’t review Ocean Beach at all; Rolling Stone gave it four stars, but more notably, four sentences.) I saw the band play twice, and honestly, I don’t remember either room being packed primarily by “lots of female fans” or packed at all — as I recall, they were held in three-quarters-full mid-sized venues, and attended by the same ratios and types of tennis-shod men and women who come to see him today. Red House Painters were dropped by 4AD after the release of Ocean Beach; they spent the next six years in label hell. In 1998, Kozelek’s bank account was levied by the IRS because he hadn’t paid his taxes in two years. As a fan, I was sincerely concerned about Kozelek’s wherewithal, and frustrated that his brilliance was going unnoticed. I was convinced he would be discovered posthumously, and eventually recognized as one of the greatest songwriters of his generation, maybe one of the greatest songwriters in the history of American rock music. He certainly wasn’t being recognized in the moment! Red House Painters’ final album, Old Ramon, was completed more than three years before finally being released. From 1996 – 2005, Kozelek released music on seven different labels, under three different monikers.
Over that same span, I interviewed Kozelek on three separate occasions, for three different publications. (For a good percentage of my adult life, I considered it something of a mission to eventually write Kozelek’s biography.) I did a fairly substantial feature on him in 2004 (it was one of the last in-person interviews he’s granted), some months after the release of his first album under the Sun Kil Moon handle, Ghosts Of The Great Highway. And in that exchange, I spoke to him at length about his financial stability and his legacy. Among other things, he told me this:
I spent four years in remedial reading classes. I didn’t go to college. In some ways I feel like I was just completely designed to fail in life. Completely fail. I love my parents, but my parents and my sister, they live a very, very simple life. And for me to have come on this journey … I mean, my friend Richie, who I grew up across the street from, he just got out of prison. These people I know, that I grew up around, for the most part, they still live there. They work at the grocery store.
This thing that I did was not easy. And I don’t have any tangible success from it. I don’t own anything. But I have this incredible journey. This whole thing has unfolded, and I’m very humble about it, I’m grateful. I’m really, really grateful. Because I have reminders every day of where I could have been. What else would I have done? There’s no other option I have. There’s no other option I have, so I’m really glad that this thing happened for me.
I stopped going to see Mark Kozelek after that Williamsburg gig not because of the “clones” crack, but because his shows seemed to me increasingly sadistic in other ways: He was playing for well over two, sometimes well over three hours, which I found to be a physically punishing experience when I could neither sit down nor move in any way to the music. He refused to play large chunks of the Red House Painters catalog, and the songs he did play were reworked to the point of being unrecognizable, often stripped of their melody and sometimes, seemingly, any melody. (I was stunned and delighted when I saw him do an album-esque version of “Mistress” with the Roots on Fallon.)
I’m not saying these are objectively bad things, but I had personally ceased to be moved or excited by them. I felt like I was going to the shows out of loyalty, not enjoyment. And frankly, I don’t connect with his new records the way I did the old ones. Again, this is a personal thing. For me, Benji is one of his lesser albums, and I’m puzzled when I hear other critics (pretty much every other critic) call it his best. But I’ve been enormously heartened and oddly relieved by that reaction, too. Benji is a breakthrough for Kozelek — a universally celebrated and beloved album-of-the-year contender — and at age 47, it’s been a long time coming. It has made me a little sad to think that Benji will (probably) be the album on which his legacy rests (it should be Ocean Beach, dammit! It should be “Rollercoaster”!), but that’s nothing compared to the happiness I feel knowing that his music is being discovered, and discussed, and loved, and that he is finally making some money.
Now, though, I’m beginning to wonder if he isn’t altering his legacy even further. For Mark Kozelek, 2014 should have been remembered as the year of Benji, but I believe it is being rewritten as the year of “The War On Drugs can suck my fucking dick.” As I said, the banter is nothing new. But Kozelek’s decision to publicize that banter? To take it viral? To monetize it? Knowing Kozelek’s background, it’s hard to fault the man for clinging to, and wringing dry, every bit of media attention and every dollar that comes with it, but I wonder if he’s lost sight of the long game. I wonder what he’s thinking, period. I can’t tell if it’s opportunism or boredom or neediness or sheer insanity, but Kozelek’s new troll persona is absolutely my least favorite thing about music in 2014, and it’s rapidly changing my feelings about my favorite musician.
Actually, you know, it’s going a long way toward making him my not-favorite musician. It’s honestly pretty embarrassing! I mean, for Kozelek himself it’s a disgrace, but I’m starting to feel embarrassed for me. Last week, Scott wrote that Kozelek’s persistent, truly uncalled-for public needling of the War On Drugs “isn’t a feud so much as cyberbullying,” and I agree. And who the hell roots for cyberbullies? Who wants to claim fan-ownership of a 47-year-old jerk who pushes around other musicians without provocation? Especially when the pushed-around musician in question — Adam Granduciel — was, not long ago, working maintenance, unclogging toilets and cleaning rodent corpses out of filthy basements, to keep the lights on, to pay for studio time and guitar strings? Perhaps most tragically, most selfishly, Kozelek has also done some damage to the War On Drugs’ legacy: For Granduciel and his band, 2014 should be remembered as the year of Lost In The Dream, itself a universally celebrated and beloved album-of-the-year contender. And instead … this.
Kozelek has promised that a song titled “War On Drugs: Suck My Cock” will stream tonight, which might represent the lowest moment of his career (and I’m including his role in Shopgirl in my calculus here). I have no doubt the song, if it emerges, will be beautiful and elegant and even funny. For the sake of spiritual harmony, I hope the song comes with Granduciel’s blessing, if not his assistance. I’ll be a little disappointed, though, if he joins in. I mean, honestly, I think Granduciel should just ignore this whole thing the way you would a drunken asshole on the subway. Maybe by ignoring it, he will put an end to this chapter that never should have been written in the first place. But maybe it was inevitable. I mean, given Kozelek’s history, I guess I can kind of understand — not justify, but understand — why he’s digging in against the War On Drugs. It’s all in this tweet, via Granduciel, offered in confused response to Kozelek’s initial tirade against the War On Drugs:
Seems like it might have been at least partially in jest so whatever. Just upsetting to me as a fan that's all. We're just doin' what we do
— The War on Drugs (@warondrugsjams) September 15, 2014
You see? He’s a fan. And for that, he gets treated like shit. Just like the rest of them. You. Us.
//
[Photo of chalk graffiti on a sidewalk on Blount St., in Raleigh, NC, following Mark Kozelek’s set at Hopscotch Festival, courtesy of Dan Ruccia.]
yeah, if you’re going to troll at least be funny with it
At some point Kozelek needs to issue a little “Come on, it’s all in the spirit of a classic Roast. I love War On Drugs”
But as it stands now the thing has reached the point of “Jesus, are you stil tormenting these guys?” And he looks like a dick.
If I make it to middle age, I hope I don’t start drinking the same Kool-Aid as Kozelek and Richard Dawkins and Morrissey etc.
..Richard Dawkins? I must have missed something
Yeah, despite his prickly modern persona, we should be forever grateful for Richard Dawkins’ sterling run of singles on 4AD back in the day.
When I saw him a few months ago, he was curt, sarcastic and self-deprecating – but more than anything, I just got the general feeling that he was miserable. Like, genuinely miserable.
Someone in the audience asked him what he’d been doing in town today and asked him if he’d visited the Museum of Art, and he almost recoiled in horror, making some remark about how he’d rather just sit in his hotel room watching television series.
He just sounded like a sad old man.
Maybe people should just listen to his *incredible* music and lyrics rather than listen to what he has to say about anything else? If he put in a polemic line in any of his songs (as IF he’d do that), nobody would bat an eyelid.
And Stereogum should stop stirring the shit and write more about actual music than non-existent feuds and tabloid bollocks. You’re making people care about the wrong things.
While I agree that sometimes Stereogum is guilty of ‘stirring the shit’, this whole episode has gone beyond that. Kind of like the article states, this whole thing is becoming part of Kozelek’s legacy, not because blogs are dwelling on it, but because Kozelek is dwelling on it. I mean with ‘the war on drugs can suck my fucking dick’ he’s officially made the whole deal a part of his body of work, it is his music now.
That’s actually quite interesting in that sense – the idea of his art imitating his life – but it doesn’t negate entirely what I’ve said. He just doesn’t seem to be (as comments are showing us) the kind of person who should be taken ‘seriously’ when he makes offhand comments – he doesn’t have that filter to him…
…And from conversations I’ve heard lately, it sounds like more people are entertained and watching the show than truly being ‘offended’ by him.
If people knew (or regarded) the opinions of a lot of artists, they’d hate them – but people don’t, generally, because it’s the art that counts.
This ‘War on Drugs can Suck my Dick’ song or whatever had better be fucking incredible.
I don’t think most people are offended either, just… embarrased.
If his background is as he stated above, maybe, he’s a bit embarrassed that his audience has turned out to be mainly middle class, art-gallery loving, tennis-shoe wearing people, and this whole act is a way of distancing himself so that he feels he isn’t part of that scene.
i had a wonderful experience at that show..in the front row and wearing tennis shoes. i do think he was hitting on my girlfriend though….
It was a really great gig, definitely! All told, a perfect atmosphere… Maybe grumpiness or melancholia puts people in the right mood for his nostalgic brand.
Reporting on someone is different to stirring the shit.
This is a good & interesting read, thanks!
As a life-long Morrissey fan, I can relate to having an idol that seems to do everything in their power to undermine your belief not only in their art but also in their decency as a person.
Also like Moz, Koz’s depressive and misanthropic worldview has always been part of his lyrics and his artistic persona. It seems like, as fans as these kind of artists, we can relate to those worldviews and even find some comfort in hearing someone express ideas that we have but feel embarrassed by because they seem morbid, or selfish, or self-pitying. Are we making a mistake in thinking we can have the art but not the personality that it grows out of?
Morrissey is a great comparison.
It’s funny you mention Morrissey because I thought a lot about Moz while writing this. Not just for the obvious reasons, but because early in his career, Kozelek’s music was often compared to Morrissey’s, and Kozelek always dismissed it out of hand: His guys were Neil Young and Led Zeppelin and John Denver, and he was nothing like Morrissey. Kind of ironic to think about that now!
By the way, it sounds like you have buried your Kozelek bio project for the time being – but have you thought about pitching 33 & 1/3 a Kozelek book? You’ve already done the legwork, you’d just have to pick the right album to build your narrative around.
I’ve considered it but if I were gonna do something I’d want it to be with Koz’s endorsement and involvement, and I’d want it to cover his whole life/career.
As a Morrissey fan, I must say I’ve been embarrassed by a few – ok, a lot! – of his positions/behaviors in the recent past. But to me, there’s a big difference between Moz and Koz. Morrissey has never been explicitly dismissive of his audience. He may have said/written bad things about the morrissey-solo webiste, but most of these guys are actual cyber bullies so that’s quite well deserved. And when he bothers to show up at gigs, most of them are no less than stellar. He sings his ass out, shakes a thousand hands – no wonder he’s caught the flu so many times, and plays an energetic one-hour-and-a-half show with a lot of crowd-pleasing songs. In sum, Morrissey’s own branch of sadistic self-deprecation does not apply much to his fans. He’s too full of himself for that!
Besides, Michael, that’s some really great writing. Your paragraph about Granduciel’s working hard to pay the rent was heart-wrenching. My feeling is that the best reaction from him would be to cover one of Kozelek’s songs without further comment. That’s what fan musicians do.
I meant “he sings his ass OFF”.
I mentioned this in an earlier post, and I couldn’t agree more with you. The internet and social media shines a light on artists’ personalities in a way that wasn’t possible a few years ago. Who knows which artists may have put distractions on blast if the internet were prevalent years ago. On the other hand, many great melancholy, ‘depressive’ musicians exist who do a great job of speaking through their music and keeping their personal opinions out of the limelight. Jamie Stewart of Xiu Xiu comes to mind.
http://www.stereogum.com/1705450/sun-kil-moon-the-war-on-drugs-can-suck-my-fucking-dick/franchises/wheres-the-beef/#comment-8423982
he’s daring us to love him.
“Are we making a mistake in thinking we can have the art but not the personality that it grows out of?”
For me, I kind of feel the opposite – Moz and Koz have lyrics that suggest some unpleasant tendencies, but their lyrics also suggest a lot of different reactions to their own traits, chief among them self-deprecation and awareness. Just off the top of my head, “Frankly Mr.Shankly” – the first time I heard it, I thought, “wow, this is a pretty brazen statement of neediness.” And then it closes with Morrissey singing “give us money” to his label, and I though, “Okay, Morrissey recognizes it.” I like the Smiths because I know I have my own self-important tendencies, and it’s heartening to listen to those old records and see someone grapple with them and emerge at least partially sympathetic. Seeing Morrissey now sometimes feels like a sad postscript to the Smiths, where the protagonist of those records fell victim to his worst characteristics.
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This is a really great article.
I’ve had similar feelings about other musicians/artists/athletes I’ve been “obsessed” with to varying degrees (maybe not to *your* degree – that’s a pretty intense affair), and the struggle to reconcile love of particular art or performance with appalling beliefs or behavior is a really hard one. A lot of people think that you should be able to separate the two, but I don’t think that’s right. An artists’ behavior can and should paint his/her output, because if art is defined by revealing yourself or your perspective to the world, that revelation is inherently partly colored by the shitty traits that make up the artists’ personality.
He seems like one angry dude
I can understand being a lifelong super fan of Kozelek and seeing him go off the deep end so to speak could be upsetting. But I think if any fan or band is offended by this, that’s just oversensitivity. As a new fan of Kozelek and lover of his last 5 years of albums, this whole thing is just funny. Ya he’s a troll, ya he’s being a jerk, but jeez don’t let it bother you. He doesn’t give a fuck so why should you? It’s harmless really and I’m looking forward to War on Drugs can Suck my Cock.
Tim and Eric scream and yell at their fans at their live shows, and while it’s more obviously a joke, it’s very funny. Kozelek is just much more dry and obtuse about it. I for one am fine with being called a hipster clone by him from the stage.
I feel the same way about Wayne Coyne. Yeah he’s being especially creepy lately, but it’s not like his personality or asshole tendencies have ever affected the way I listen to his music before.
Thing is his trolling really isn’t even funny or all that clever. Artists can be dicks from time to time but they have to carry it in a certain way in their demeanor. I love Noel Gallagher’s jabs but Kozelek just comes across as a bitter tool.
His whole relentless attack on The War On Drugs (the band) is tiring at best at this point. And I, too, have had this whole situation change how I listen to Benji. People say that we need to disassociate the man from his music, that his personality shouldn’t affect how we perceive his music. Yet when you make music that is so dependent on your grasp of a language, to so ineloquently tell another band to “suck your dick” is extremely juvenile and homophobic. I’m left wondering how much the lyrics on Benji actually meant to the guy, or if they’re just the drunk ramblings of an angry, middle-aged white guy. If I wanted that, I’d go to Fox News.
I think you make some great points. But a bigger question: do we demand to know/like/own our favorite artists too much?
I mean, thanks to things like Twitter and Instagram Stereogum, we’re encouraged to engage with people beyond the albums and vetted productions of these artists. If you want to know what Darnielle is reading or what Questlove’s eating on the plane, you can.
But they’re people. Some of them are unbalanced. Some of them are depressed. Some of them are going to have embarrassing streaks and do destructive things. And it’s not new. Lennon was an asshole. At least he didn’t have Twitter.
Just remember that we were the ones who demanded all of this access in the first place.
Well put. I also think that partially because of all this access fans tend to start expecting too much from artists. We expect artists to take huge artistic risks with their (very personal) work and open themselves up to endless scrutiny and criticism. Then when we like what they have done (or even if we don’t), the expectation is that they are nice, gracious people at all times. Many artists are forced to live in a world that they might not really feel a part of.
It must be exhausting for a guy who has been around as long as Kozelek to take these chances and not feel some resentment somewhere. As far as I can tell the guy has always been a pretty depressed/sad/negative dude and having your pain on display for all to see for so long is bound to have some repercussions. In the current media environment not only is your art open to scrutiny but almost everything you say or do is too.
Great article Michael
Michael really confused me….I thought this was an announcement of the strangest supergroup EVER between Mark Kozelek and long dormant Austin gloom machine I Love You But I’ve Chosen Darkness.
Or Koz covering LCD Soundsystem. Which I wouldn’t be surprised by.
RIP I love you but I’ve chosen darkness. According to plan is my Jam. (I’ve never used that phrase before, I’ve made an exception here.)
That’s really ironic. I can’t tell you how often in my personal life I reference Stereogum poster LeMonjello and refer to his comments as “my jam”
IE,,,,,,,”LemonJello said something really quippy today. That dude is my jam”
I AM THE JAM!
Great read, I really enjoyed this. I can’t get into Benji too much, but definitely going to be giving Red House Painters a solid listen this week.
Indie music in 2014: “The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.”
http://www.robcotton.com/mark-kozelek-lashes-out-at-the-heat-in-golden-gate-park/
I started reading this and was like “Wait a minute! I was there and it wasn’t like that at all!” Then I realized it was a joke. Well played.
I was actually a bit surprised that he didn’t say anything to the audience about being loud and whatnot. Since Hardly Strictly is a free show, almost no one pays attention to the music. You go to sit in the park and socialize while some musicians play off in the distance. If you’re expecting more than that you’re going to be disappointed. I guess Koz must have resigned himself to that before even coming on stage because there were definitely more people talking than there were paying attention and he never said a word about it.
I’ve been to many of kozelek’s shows, and it’s been the same old routine, playing mostly new songs and bitching atthe audience…then he’ll come out with a song about it the next time around. the only difference between 4 years ago and today is that he’s touring with a band and in support of a pretty decent album and more people are turning up to the venues…thus finally getting to terms with the usual kozelek show. nobody seemed to notice when he was solo and playing in cafes a few years back, chugging his way through “Katy Song” and some of the hits. i draw the Morrissey comparison very heavily…Morrissey has always been saying inciniery shit in public, it’s just more and more people are listening. the “Morrissey’s secrets to the music business” article is in a tab, ready to be read right after this. he is a master of the non-spin on negative PR.
for the record, this is a well written and passionate article. also for the record, i like WOD, and dig Benji too. i find this last few months of being a kozelek fan – very fascinating yet confusing, but here i am…trolling on yet another sterogum piece on him.
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