Jim DeRogatis dislikes the Doors, Springsteen, Rolling Stone, and Ryan Adams. We knew all that. He’s also not a fan of Juno, the film or its Kimya-heavy soundtrack (From his column: “Sure, Juno gives lip service to loving Iggy and the Stooges and Patti Smith. But there isn’t a hint of the anger and lust for life of those pioneering punks in the sort of twee indie-rock that Juno loves.”) His Sound Opinions co-host Greg Kot doesn’t dig it either, but he seems more forgiving. You can hear the two discuss the soundtrack during a recent Sound Opinions segment focused on the Grammys (they give Herbie Hancock’s Joni a slammy) and the best movie soundtracks of all times (The Harder They Come for Greg, The Royal Tenenbaums and that “haunting German chanteuse” Nico for Jim).

Jim DeRogatis Hates Juno

The segment’s basically an opportunity for Jim, “unapologetically old-school feminist,” to continue trashing Juno and its soundtrack, which he’s been doing since the beginning of the year. He’s been labeled a “feminazi” and has defended himself tenfold. Via his Sun Times blog:

If “feminazi” is not right-wing bravado, I don’t know what is. And because Williamson isn’t a very good reader, I’ll answer the question he poses — “Why would a feminist hate Juno, a pro-choice movie?” — one more time, in the simplest language I can muster: “Juno” is not a pro-choice movie. It is an anti-abortion movie masquerading as a pro-choice movie. And one with a lousy soundtrack at that.

Much of the ire comes back to Kimya’s “barely songs” and her guitar “she can’t really play.” Well, if they were good enough for The View, they’re good enough … you might have a point, Jim. You can find the MP3 of the show here.

Comments (97)
  1. rocknrollchad  |   Posted on Feb 18th, 2008 0

    Jim hates Juno, but loves…Chinese food.

  2. Greg  |   Posted on Feb 18th, 2008 0

    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz….

  3. patrick  |   Posted on Feb 18th, 2008 0

    good.

    that movie sucked.

    how much did you guys get paid to plaster Juno ads all over your blog?

  4. bort  |   Posted on Feb 18th, 2008 0

    yeah, it did suck really bad. totally not boss or whatever

  5. Jay  |   Posted on Feb 18th, 2008 0

    Jim is just copying his idol, Lester Bangs, with all of this dissension.

  6. Stripper Turned Writter  |   Posted on Feb 18th, 2008 0

    Thundercats GO!

  7. Jeff  |   Posted on Feb 18th, 2008 0

    “Honest to blog”

    Even while the backlash for this movie continues to intensify, it’s funny how the criticisms that people have for it – namely the cheeky dialogue – is the same thing it will become even more cult-famous for in that camp sort of way…it’s as if the good-vibes backlash is turning inside out to turn the film into its own popular joke..which in some strange way is a good thing…if you see my point…the very same fact that people hate the ‘what other kind of shenanigans’ type fare is the very same reason it will get beaten to death…let the referencing commence.

  8. Y’know, if you listen to the segment, I think both Jim and Greg make a pretty strong case for why the Kimya songs don’t work, and end up bringing down the soundtrack as a whole. And remember their whole discussion is about what make a great soundtrack … not what makes a great indie folk compilation album.

  9. Jeff  |   Posted on Feb 18th, 2008 0

    One more thing…I just noticed the ‘thundercats go!’ comment was left by ‘Stripper Turned Writter’….either you had a case of the double-consonant tick with double pp’s and double tt’s….or you are completely hilarious in the fact that a stripper turned ‘writter’ would more than likely not spell all that well. Good job Diablo, you devil you.

  10. How is Juno not pro-choice? The key word is CHOICE… as in, you can CHOOSE whether you want to get an abortion or not. Juno CHOSE not to. End of story. Why is this guy so angry about everything? Dude needs to get over himself and chill.

  11. DtotheE  |   Posted on Feb 18th, 2008 0

    perfected fluff at best. that’s it’s biggest flaw, it’s simply not real

  12. Me!  |   Posted on Feb 18th, 2008 0

    I absolutely love Jim for one simple reason. I don’t think he has ever fact checked an article in his life. He is constantly getting huge details incorrect. Gotta respect a man working for a crashing paper who still doesn’t care enough to get his facts straight.

  13. BIG who cares.

  14. HappyParts  |   Posted on Feb 18th, 2008 0

    Jim & Greg for President

  15. John S  |   Posted on Feb 18th, 2008 0

    DeRogatis is an “unapologetically old-school feminist” of the 60s-70s variety, the kind who likes to say he’s down with women but never misses an opportunity to try and keep them in their place.

    He started this whole thing by asserting that he knew better than 19-year-old Ellen Page what a teenage girl would listen to, because he talks to kids once in a while as part of his job. Some feminist.

    When men write, star in and score snotty coming-of-age movies, good or bad, he does not care one bit.

  16. Fed-Ex Pope  |   Posted on Feb 18th, 2008 0

    Oh, I get it…now it’s cool to hate on Juno and the soundtrack when Stereogum was stroking it to them just a few weeks ago. Thanks for being there, Stereogum!

    With your help, I also know that Vampire Weekend is lame and John Mayer is funny. KUDOS!

  17. juano  |   Posted on Feb 18th, 2008 0

    You should have photoshopped his face onto the pregnant chick.

  18. hs  |   Posted on Feb 18th, 2008 0

    why is stereogum so obsessed with jim derogatis?

  19. Mike  |   Posted on Feb 18th, 2008 0

    Juno is a great film. It is a shame that some people are too shortsighted to see that the dialogue in Juno is intentionally stylized. It the film’s uncredited, unseen character, functioning in much the same way that Jonny Greenwood’s soundtrack does in the very very different but equally great There Will Be Blood. No, not everyone is that sharp or that funny in real life. But think of a book you have read that is told in third person but essentially tells the story from one particular character’s point of view. This is what Juno does. It’s a story that, while told in third person, is essentially giving you Juno’s view of everything-so you get the world as filtered through her.

  20. Johnnyboy  |   Posted on Feb 18th, 2008 0

    I liked this film a lot. The characters rang true to me (in fact, Jason Bateman’s character hit a little too close to the bone). However, I hated the soundtrack. That whole incompetent/sloppy-on-purpose-because-we’re-too-cool-to-sing-in-tune Kimya Dawson/Moldy Peaches thing makes me throw up a little in my mouth.

  21. That Guy  |   Posted on Feb 18th, 2008 0

    I don’t think that the fact that the dialogue is “intentionally stylized” got past anyone, Mike. It’s just fucking stupid.

  22. disco vietnam  |   Posted on Feb 18th, 2008 0

    Jim DeRogatis: “You shouldn’t use your taste in music to conspicuously try to make other people think you’re cooler than you really are! That’s pathetic bullshit … and it’s my fucking job!”

  23. eselsi  |   Posted on Feb 19th, 2008 0

    “the very same fact that people hate the ‘what other kind of shenanigans’ type fare”

    Y’know I have a copy of the final shooting script that I got from work and that line isn’t in it, she says something more benign.
    It must have been something Ellen improv’d or it somehow just came up later..?

    I did cringe, however, when I saw it in the trailer. That single line is a pretty good subtitle for the yawning genre.

  24. Keram  |   Posted on Feb 19th, 2008 0

    On the film: The first half of the film is bullshit Garden State-like fare (see: that fucking annoying I-just-wrote-this-in-my-notebook typeface that’s in the opening credits). However the latter half of the film (starting with the scene in the mall) is pretty brilliant and more than makes up for the lackluster first half.

    On the soundtrack: I love that Stooges/MC5/Suicide/Television/Patti Smith-influenced punk stuff as much as the next guy, but if you can’t see the beauty in Cat Power’s version of Phil Phillips’ “Sea of Love” or any of those Belle and Sebastian tracks, you aren’t listening hard enough.

    On the abortion issue: Fuck it. If you want to see a film about the abortion debate, just go see “Lake of Fire.” Otherwise let me watch my movie in peace.

  25. i don’t understand why people hate juno so much. i actually liked the soundtrack a lot, it fit the mood of the film great. people complain about the dialogue of the film, but when i was a teenager, i remember speaking “different language” with my friends and then speaking to random strangers the same way not realising that they didn’t understand me. and about the “anti-abortion” issue. i do think it is pro-choice movie. she chose not get an abortion. why does one assume that being pro-choice automatically means that you have to get an abortion? juno made her choice, and decided not to get one. it is as simple as that. the reasons why she didn’t choose to get an abortion may not be clear, but in the end she made a choice not to get an abortion. people shouldn’t be happy that every unexpected pregnancy ends up with an abortion. people should be happy that there is at least a choice for people to make on a difficult situation. and Jim knowing what teenage girls would listen to compared to Ellen Page? yeah, because like, Jim was totally a 15 year old girl before he transitioned into a man. idiot.

  26. patrick  |   Posted on Feb 19th, 2008 0

    I think one of the major flaws for me is its lack of realism or respect it shows for pregnancy. abort it or not whatever, this movie made it look so simple and appealing to be pregnant. It was just a terrible story, with nothing to offer. I would say it was maybe pro-choice, but leaning towards pro-life, i mean come on the raspberry (or whatever) dick condoms? I mean come on, who goes in for an abortion and has some annoying chick from Degrassi talking to you about how her boyfriends dick tastes.

    Dumb shit.

    oh yeah and always remember, it has fingernails.

  27. jmm  |   Posted on Feb 19th, 2008 0

    jim is still probably trying to explain how that bonnaroo “lez/led zeppelin” press release was misleading.

  28. lbt  |   Posted on Feb 19th, 2008 0

    I seriously take exception to this: “Sure, Juno gives lip service to loving Iggy and the Stooges and Patti Smith. But there isn’t a hint of the anger and lust for life of those pioneering punks in the sort of twee indie-rock that Juno loves.”

    Let me just say before I continue that Kimya Dawson and Moldy Peaches aren’t my cup of tea. Let me also say that, while I liked it as a whole, Juno was a little too precious and “cool” for me – Jason Reitman was obviously trying way too hard to name drop.

    Now – the crux of my argument, or issue, or whatever: how come, if you love Iggy and the Stooges and Patti Smith, why can you not simultaneously love “twee indie rock,” or any other genre for that matter? I blare my Gang of Four and Iggy right next to my Heavenly and Tiger Trap, right next to my Loretta Lynn and Patsy Cline. I love music, period.

    I did not listen to the mp3 of the show, and I buy that the soundtrack isn’t exactly cohesive, but I take great exception to that implication that to be “cool” (or whatever it is that this guy thinks he is), you’ve gotta stay true to the 1970s NYC music scene. I’m so tired of and bored with hipster fan boys. Blurgh.

  29. @patrick: “this movie made it look so simple and appealing to be pregnant”

    I thought it made it look pretty alienating and uncomfortable.

  30. studly roberts  |   Posted on Feb 19th, 2008 0

    I can get behind his criticism that it’s not a feminist movie; it left me wanting to physically abuse all sorts of women.

  31. Burger Phone  |   Posted on Feb 19th, 2008 0

    Jim is just upset because this movie isn’t about :

    a.) Chicago
    b.) Food
    c.) Lester Bangs
    d.) Lester Bangs cooking food in Chicago and savagely beating Ryan Adams with a skillet while listening to Wilco.

    (they’re all correct)

  32. fatass  |   Posted on Feb 19th, 2008 0

    It’s kinda hard to take DeRogatis serious when at the same times he praises Fall Out Boy for being talented…

  33. jake  |   Posted on Feb 19th, 2008 0

    Maybe DeRogatis should stop eating all those cheesesteaks and get a fucking life. And really, why should anyone care with that Lester-wannabe has to say?

  34. matt  |   Posted on Feb 19th, 2008 0

    I loved the film, but I felt like the twee pop was an unusual choice for a movie about a teen who loves punk rock. I realize it’s possible to like both, but there’s a bit of disconnect between the character and the soundtrack.

  35. Juno is a fun movie- fuck all of you

  36. serenity Now  |   Posted on Feb 19th, 2008 0

    FINALLY!!! i’ve been looking SO long for someone who HATES Juno as much as I do; I made the same exact point about the Stooges thing (how the soundtrack was not in any way analogous with Juno’s “character” and musical “tastes”), how Jason Reitman bankrupted his integrity fund going for the Indie Gold of Indie Comedy, how FUCKING ANNOYING IT IS.

    Thank you, Jim DeRogatis. I can forgive you for hating the Boss.

  37. Serenity Now  |   Posted on Feb 19th, 2008 0

    good point Patrick; I can’t think of anything more insulting to someone who is actually a pregnant teen than some stupid bitch talking about dropping her baby on someone else’s doorstep, then having a HAPPY ENDING.

  38. Blah  |   Posted on Feb 19th, 2008 0

    I believe it’s “Thundercats HO!” Not “Thundercats GO!.”

    God. Why do people know nothing of culture these days.

  39. Things to recognize:

    You are not the only person who liked Juno, it (sadly) got nominated for an Academy Award for best picture.

    You are not the only person who hate Juno, I did too, as did about a hundred people who commented on this article, agreeing.

    This guy is a bitch, and the movie wasn’t political, and calm down.

  40. christian  |   Posted on Feb 19th, 2008 0

    First of all, I disliked Juno. The first 30 minutes or so were so awkwardly cobbled together, I was checking my watch the whole time. The story of Jason Bateman’s character and his wife was compelling and interesting, and I really enjoyed Juno’s parents. At the same time, Michael Cera is great and I could watch him for hours, but this film can’t be everything to everyone. I agree with the disconnect with the music…and how highly unlikely it is for a teenager now to be invested in early punk and 90s indie/twee/yadda/yadda/yadda. But all that aside, the contrived dialog sinks this film from the get go. The horrible (and old and irrelevant) music only adds weight to the sinking ship.

    But in response to this guy and his politics, “pro-choice” doesn’t have to mean “get an abortion.” I think it’s highly offensive to assume that. This guy is not “pro-choice” — he is “pro-abortion,” which is kiiiiiiiiinda fucked up. the right to choose is awesome, but criticizing someone for NOT having an abortion is bizarre.

  41. Keram  |   Posted on Feb 19th, 2008 0

    The pregnancy in the film was merely the filmmaker’s tool to put teen alienation and the transition to adulthood under the microscope. That’s pretty much it.

    That’s why any debate on the political message of the film devolves into this stupid message board-like “OMGZ THIS FILM TOTES HATES TEH WIMMENS AND VOTES FOR TEH HUCKABEES” crap.

    Oh and we please get past this “DeRogatis is fat” stuff. I feel like I’m listening to my dad criticize Michael Moore.

  42. william  |   Posted on Feb 19th, 2008 0

    “But in response to this guy and his politics, “pro-choice” doesn’t have to mean “get an abortion.” I think it’s highly offensive to assume that. This guy is not “pro-choice” — he is “pro-abortion,” which is kiiiiiiiiinda fucked up. the right to choose is awesome, but criticizing someone for NOT having an abortion is bizarre.” quoted for truth.

    the story ended happily. plently didn’t like and plenty did. the right to choose is the right to make a choice. it doesn’t mean it’s the right to look stupid for wanting to have it. also, the movie wasn’t political anyways. it was an attempt at a character piece.

  43. juno  |   Posted on Feb 19th, 2008 0

    geez people, its just a movie. how many movies do you guys see that imitate life. if they imitated my life they’d be pretty fuckin boring to watch. the dialogue was funny…contrived, and funny. all media is contrived, just like most of your comments that you erase and edit and rewrite before you post.

  44. dontworryaboutit  |   Posted on Feb 19th, 2008 0

    I consider myself a casual reader of this blog, but blog I swear to christ if the royal you fucking post one more dero entry i’ll turn away and never come back.

  45. Behold, good sirs. Listen to your fact-checkin’ cuz. This is simple: The movie soundtrack = the mixtape Juno receives from Mark.

    It’s all there in the dialogue:

    JUNO
    So, I?ve been spending a lot of time listening to that weird CD you made me.

    (Mark instantly smiles.)

    MARK
    Oh really? What?s the verdict?

    JUNO
    I sort of like it. I mean, it?s cute.

    MARK
    Cute?

    JUNO
    Well, when you?re used to the raw power of Iggy and the Stooges, everything else sounds kind of precious by comparison.

  46. Ferris  |   Posted on Feb 20th, 2008 0

    You’re all a bunch of hipster douchebags.

  47. I hate anyone who has nothing better to do than decide whether or not Juno was a good movie or had a good soundtrack. I hate myself for reading all of the comments. Stereogum is such a freakin’ sellout.

  48. Josh  |   Posted on Feb 20th, 2008 0

    Juno was incredibly underwhelming, horribly written, and overacted by Ellen Page and her gigantic head. it was just okay.

  49. Yeah, and why is that useless boyfriend (who looks like a peripheral character from Napolean Dynamite) held up like some kind of prize? That’s the most unamusing male specimen I’ve seen in a long time.

  50. Rod Torfulson's Armada featuring Herman Menderchuck  |   Posted on Feb 20th, 2008 0

    I really don’t think the movie was calculated enough to bear any of the political messages being imposed on it by some of these critics. I saw it as a pretty simple story about people struggling to get the things that make them happy, in spite of the obstacles. Juno wants to be an ordinary teenager with a geek boyfriend, not a mom. Bateman’s character wants to be in a rock band, not a suburban family man. Garner’s character wants what Juno has already been given, and so they make an arrangement where everybody gets the best of what they want, even if they have to make sacrifices (like a broken marriage). That’s what the whole scene in the mall was about. Juno thought Bateman’s character was the “cool one,” when it turned out to be Garner’s passion for kids she actually admired. The rest is window dressing, if you ask me.

    And for what it’s worth, I’m not a big Moldy Peaches fan at all, but I thought it worked fine in the movie. There’s a lot of uncertainty in Juno and her future, so the paper-thin songs seemed to suit that mix of optimism and frailty she had.

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