Looks like our favorite pot-smoking Dave Matthews covering Countryman learns his 9/11 conspiracies from Las Vegas, telling Alex Jones on live national radio, “I saw those towers fall and I’ve seen an implosion in Las Vegas — there’s too much similarities between the two, and I saw a building fall that didn’t get hit by nothing. How naive are we — what do they think we’ll go for?” (via Daily Swarm via Prison Planet)
Very thoughtful of Jones to pause when he starts talking about voices in Willie’s head. Where’s Stockhausen when you need a follow-up? Oh right, he’s dead.
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Unless he was joking, this constitutes a full-out boycott of everything Willie. And you called Cosby crazy.
You know a theory isn’t credible when a celebrity endorses it
There has been a pretty serious “expose” floating around U-Tube that claims the buildings did implode because of strategically placed explosives in key areas of the towers and other buildings. I don’t remember the name of the expose but it does claim we were attacked by domestic terrorists/government as well as foreign terrorists. Scary stuff.
Lynn, you’re a fucking idiot.
Hey Logic, Reason…
Take it easy, guy. No reason to be so hostile, everyone is entitled to a opinion including Willie and Lynn etc…relax man!
As a matter of fact if Willie was in charge we would probably be in better shape then we are currently…
would you think that if you want to learn the truth,that a open and true investigation would be conducted. Find the truth and do it in the public eye so all can see instead of the sham we have been subjected to. THANK YOU WILLIE NELSON FOR SPEAKING OUT WE NEED MORE TRUE AMERICANS WHO LOVE THIS COUNTRY TO DEMAND A HONEST INVESTIGATION OF 911
Every nutjob conspiracy theory was shredded to pieces by a Popular Mechanics piece a few years ago. What a surprise — Willie Nelson and the bonghitters aren’t exactly physics pros!
Dear rocknrollchad, thank you for your eloquent defense of everyone’s right to an opinion. Relax people. You are getting sleepy… sleeeeepy…
Will you truthers go back to playing D&D in your mom’s basement already. You’re disgracing the memory of the 9/11 victims.
“Where’s Stockhausen when you need a follow-up? Oh right, he’s dead.”
OR IS HE?
AM I BLOWING YOUR MI-I-I-IND???!?
Unbelievable…I used to actually respect this guy. boycott.
I bet these comments won’t devolve into weirdness at all.
If there are questions not being answered then there is doubt that the truth is being told. Answers are needed to get us all on the same page and back to the trust we need again in this nation. Wake up and stop the bull and just adress the issue and make it plain so all can understand. That is all we are asking, not the snow job we are getting.
im having a hard time figuring out why you guys think this possibility of events is “SO IMPOSSIBLE”. wake up.
Truthers are like roaches — stomp them with facts a thousand times, and they just keep crawling under the baseboards, ready to come out the next night. They’re like any faith-based group. You can’t reason with them.
The real disgrace to 9/11 victims is the flat out opposition to obtaining a complete picture of what happened on 9/11 by Cheney/Bush/Rove. They did not want that Commission created whatsoever. Just read NYT report Philip Shenon’s new book on the Commission. Disgusting obstructions and lies.
If this administration wants to keep secrets and so aggressively obstruct an investigation of what happened on 9/11 they deserve all the conspiracy theories that can be cooked up. I hope they’re plagued by them for the rest of their lives whether they hold water or not.
People have a right to be suspicious. It doesn’t make any of the theories true but you should respect all opinions on 9/11 because it’s clear that a) we haven’t had a definitive explanation yet and b) we all strive for a complete story in honor of the victims.
The Popular Mechanics debunking has been debunked. Which engineer should we trust? Should we believe celebrities or politicians? How about people who were there? The first hand accounts lead to a pretty distrubing picture of that day.
“People have a right to be suspicious. It doesn’t make any of the theories true but you should respect all opinions on 9/11 because it’s clear that a) we haven’t had a definitive explanation yet and b) we all strive for a complete story in honor of the victims.”
That’s retarded. I don’t even pretend to “respect the opinions” of morons who claim that 9/11 was an inside job any more than I respect the opinions of morons who say the Holocaust was a fake. In fact, I go out of my way to ridicule anyone with such delusional, disproved fantasies.
It’s sad that a few pathetic souls are so pathological that they must dream up nonsensical scenarios so they can pin it on Bush or Clinton or the CIA or the FBI or whoever they hate.
That’s enough said about you tinfoil-hat losers.
Rodriguez, what sources did you use to come to your conclusions about what happend on 9/11. I’m curious to know how you formed your opinions.
How many have taken the time to look for the facts?
To just accept the story told to you in the media is not understanding what is going on. Just because it is Popular Mechanics, or any other publication only makes it a story. Thank God, some of us don’t believe everything we read. There are a few of us willing to research and question what we dont understand. Take the time, unless you are just too busy to look for the truth,and see just who is questioning the official story. You will find many very qualified people willing to put there jobs on the line to speak out .
David Lynch and John Vanderslice have publically aired questions about 9/11 too. What will all the “tin foil hat haters” do when all of their indie world heroes have come out with questions about 9/11? Will you then start listening to soft rock or classical music? Will you start watching “safe” Hollywood blockbusters?
VANDERSLICE
KL: I know you have some conspiracy theories. What are some of your thoughts about people who think the 9/11 attacks were an inside job?
JV: I disagree with the documentary Loose Change one hundred percent. It might as well be paid for by the intelligence agencies to disseminate the most poorly researched stuff. It is hyperbolic and silly. I do believe though that the U.S. government was complicit in the World Trade Center towers coming down. I have pretty complicated and nuanced views. This didn’t come early. This came many years after it happened. I didn’t start pointing fingers. This kind of organically grew inside of me and it was just too much stuff that it started coming out. I do believe that most of the 9/11 truth movement are the kind of the people you would avoid at a party. It’s too bad, because it almost takes that discussion off the table. I don’t care if anyone agrees with me. I don’t have a preacher’s bone in my body but I do feel it would be impossible not to incorporate some of this stuff into my writing.
http://chronicle.puc.edu/?q=node/154
DAVID LYNCH
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhYYN7QhcKs
WHAT IF WE ARE RIGHT? Has that question ever crossed your mind? I, myself would rather know and deal with it than to sit around and call names and defend somthing that you obviously have not taken the time to reasurch
“Truthers are like roaches — stomp them with facts a thousand times, and they just keep crawling under the baseboards, ready to come out the next night. They’re like any faith-based group. You can’t reason with them.”
Ain’t that the truth. I love a lot of Willie’s music (esp. early 70s stuff) but the dude has sucked on one too many a roach.
Where is the proof? Can one person who believes the whole government-conspiracy theory produce one actual fact? I’m not talking about opinion and hearsay, I’m asking for a fact. Just one shred of proof. Do you guys have any?
Stop telling us to “do more research” and educate us. Can you do that?
Oh give me a break! I suppose you think watching those planes flying into the twin towers was a fake? Come on.
Will, Chad, Various Bloggers and Music Fans:
Questions should be asked about 9/11. Questions about how it was allowed to happen, why warnings were ignored and why the investigation never really seemed to answer questions. But you aren’t looking for the real answers, for example: our government fucked up and is now trying to avoid the repercussions. You’re looking for some much more convoluted, inane web of government conspiracy that in all probability did not happen. If you hired an exterminator to take care of a rat problem, and he set out looking for leprechauns, you’d fire him in an instant. Of course, you and I have no proof that leprechauns don’t exist, but we both have a pretty good idea. So people like you clog up the system searching for a myth, letting the real rats get away to breath a sigh of relief. The Bush administration doesn’t have to worry that somebody will catch the mistakes they really made as long as everyone concerned is trying to figure out where they “planted the bombs.” You’re actually letting them off the hook. And that makes you all assholes.
The saddest, and most unfortunate part, is that you’ll ignore what I just said, sitting on your high horses and pretending you can really see what’s going on. You’ll put down others for not wanting to look into your stupid theories and you’ll never actually accomplish anything with all the “research” you claim to be doing, or just tell others to do. And that, friends, countrymen, make you fucking idiots. Arrogant, worthless, time-wasting, selfish idiots.
Like Noam Chomsky has said recently it doesn’t matter whether Bush/Cheney had a hand in 9/11 or not. They’ve done far worse, in the open, and no one seems to give a shit.
Logic, Reason is exactly right. And yeah Sheila, I for one, would definitly stop supporting any such person if they’re using our support to go on making disrespectful, treasonous assaults on both the victims of these attacks and reason itself. I will not pay Willie Nelson or David Lynch or anyone for good art if they’re going to use the attention garnered by that economic success to spout off crazed evil, no matter how “brilliant” their art is.
To the person above who said, “Stop telling us to do more research! Just present one fact!” Firstly, let me tell you that comes off as sounding incredibly lazy. You need to understand that complicated news stories can’t be boiled down to simple 3 second sound bytes (Unless you’re Fox News). The implication that that the U.S. Government either knew about 9/11 or assisted in its completion is an incredibly complex theory suggested by the nuances and small details of thousands of news stories.
But if you need just one to get you going how about this? How about the obvious Pakistan ISI connection to the hijackers and the U.S. govt’s total ignorance of this important information? How about the $100,000 wired on 9/10/01 to hijackers from Pakistan? How about Bush saying that who funded the hijackers was of little significance?
You don’t need to believe in sci-fi stories about buildings coming down to realize something is rotten in Denmark. Follow the money trail.
I think that it is too hard to believe that this could happen to us in america. All the things we have believed in all our lives, could they be wrong. We have trusted our government to protect us. We have had wars to protect our liberty, our freedom our way of life. you want proof so do I. not a media campain to devide us, but answers. you can twist this anyway you want but too many things just don’t fit. I for one I feel we deserve answers, and the truth. I want my kids to grow up proud to be a american. Trust is important to me and right now I have lost it. I want to feel proud to be a american. Can the whole world be wrong and we are the only ones right. Free elections and honest government working for the good of our country. I want my country back.
Hey Sheila,
You still haven’t provided me with a fact. I’ve done my research and I’m asking one of you whiny little brats to give me an ACTUAL, CONCRETE FACT that you have to change my mind. I am not convinced because none of you are able to prove shit. You bitch and moan because you’re spoiled and you want someone to protest against. You cling to these things and have nothing to back it up with. Bush claiming the funding behind the hijackers is not important? How is that a fact? That can go so many directions. Bush downplays everything he does. It’s not a fact.
You people always retreat to the obvious, which is you get pressed and then you tell the rest of us stop being lazy. So, if you’re not going to tell us what happened, why are you opening your mouth about everyone else? Be the better person you know you are and prove the conspiracy!! This is your time to shine!!
Can someone explain to me the Stockhausen reference? I don’t get it. I know he’s dead, I know who he is, but, ja….
Stockhausen made some bone-headed remark about 9/11 being a beautiful work of art or something– obviously he wasn’t condoning it, but it was still stupid.
Eh..
If you are indicative of Americans in general, no wonder your economy is crashing, you are losing a war against a bunch of primitive desert people, and even your European allies revile you and are hoping to see you take a big knock.
The fact that the head of Pakistani ISI, General Mahmud Ahmed, wired $100,000 to Mohammed Atta, and that this same General was (1) a regular guest in washington meeting officials in high office, and (2) despite his and ISI’s close connection to Al-Qaeda, the 9/11 Commission dismisses financing as inconsequential.
Sheila provided “one fact”, in your frustration and rage at being shown up, you flip out like some kind of loony throwing personal insults around and venting on Sheila.
And regarding telling you what happened, this is what happened. 2 planes hit 2 buildings, and 3 buildings collapsed. 19 hijackers who were financed by the head of Pakistani intelligence carried out a destructive attack on new york.
America rallies behind their benevolent leader King George and, after failing to capture Bin Laden when he was surrounded in Tora Bora, proceed to invade a country that had no WMD and had nothing to do with 9/11.
Fast forward 5 years, and the United States is the most hated and reviled nation since the Soviet Union. You are economically, spiritually and militarily bankrupt. When the fall comes, no one will help you because you dug your own grave with your hubris, your ignorance, your aggression and egotism.
And its not just Willie Nelson.. the former President of Italy, the former Defense Minister of Germany, former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in your own country, and about a dozen high level former CIA, DIA and Air Force officers have come forward calling for a thorough and transparent investigation of 9/11
These people are far smarter and more accomplished than you are Eh.. perhaps you will have the wisdom to realise that you are not the font of all knowledge and you still have a lot to learn.
Conspiracy theories are almost always wrong for a simple reason: power structures are far too inept to pull off something so complicated. Bush may be evil, but he’s also incompetent and could not execute such a plan without 1) failing or 2) every one and their dog knowing about it. Ask questions, but please try to fight the right fight.
A good video response from Chomsky
Also, my favorite authorities, Penn & Teller
Jenny Lewis watching the Paris Hilton sex tape. Wait … what?
See above:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwZ-vIaW6Bc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcrF346sS_I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4vUBTvlyaM
“America rallies behind their benevolent leader King George and, after failing to capture Bin Laden when he was surrounded in Tora Bora, proceed to invade a country that had no WMD and had nothing to do with 9/11.”
You do realize that “I hate George Bush” isn’t evidence of any CIA explosives bringing down the towers, right? I mean, I never know how insane you mouth-frothers are, but you must realize how logical arguments work — oh, probably not.
Well put Tom Paine! When a fact is asked for, and subsequently provided, it’s doublespeak nonsense to shout “See, you couldn’t even provide one fact!” Thank you for shining some much needed logic and perspective on this conversation. What country are you writing from?
I didn’t know Vanderslice had made those comments. That’s pretty amazing. I wish he would write more about his theories as I am quite interested.
Oh, Willie, no, no, no…
No, no, no, no, please. No. No. NO.
I’m trying to rationalize this somehow, but… it’s so hard.
To everyone else, please keep in mind that there’s a big distance between thinking that there might be things we don’t know about 9/11, and believing in Bush/CIA conspiracies and “controlled demolition.” Please grab some physics textbooks and sit in the corner with Rosie O’Donnell.
I’ll be in the other corner, weeping about Willie.
Good use of newspeak comrade roy.
“You are economically, spiritually and militarily bankrupt. When the fall comes, no one will help you because you dug your own grave with your hubris, your ignorance, your aggression and egotism.”
And we’re the people that need an ego check?
These mean-spirited generalizations about three-hundred million people are the same kind of stubborn, ignorant, war-mongering that you dishonestly protest. You’re completely ignoring that we’re a nation of individuals, while applying individual characteristics to huge populations. But, in defense of the American character, and each of the 300,000,000 individuals that you speak of, I must point out that you’re very wrong.
For one, you’re maliciously oversimplifying the reasons for invading Iraq– the United States never made it that simple( and as recent evidence suggests, even Saddam wanted the world to think he had Weapons of Mass Destruction.)
Secondly, the United States Military has fought and sacrificed far too many of its finest soldiers to protect countries the American people know no interest in for anyone to say this kind of bullshit and get away with it. This isn’t even to mention the vast sums of money the United States population pours into third world countries without pause.
Perhaps we’re misguided in this way, and too twisted in our Daddy-complex to see what you think is truth– but to say our view of ourselves as a superpower-world-police is egoist is to ignore the last several hundred years of world politik and our emerging place as just that. If we are the most powerful country in the world, thinking ourselves anything other than this would be dishonest. The world arena has little room for such emotionally-charged subjectivism as false-humility– we make no claims to be meak, therefor you should have no complaint. We sacrifice because we can afford to. (At a toll.) And that brings me to your droll comment about our economy.
To say our economy is “crashing” is mere hyperbole– 4.9 percent unemployment is hardly a crash. The economy is rocky ,sure, but I’m making more money than I was last year, as are most people I know– there is no crash.
If this is what the rest of the world thinks of us, I can’t help but feel they’ve been duped.
The Popular Mechanics piece has also been debunked as yellow journalism trash.
I believe something untoward happened on that day and I started out as a dyed-in-the-wool fist-in-the-air patriot who cheered the day our missiles began smacking Baghdad in 2003.
I first began listening to/reading the debunkers with an eye toward dismissing them as crazy. But, as I read and read and read the government conspiracy didn’t add up anymore. I don’t purport to know exactly what happened on 9/11, but I know it isn’t what we’ve been told.
It’s hard to believe that after nearly an hour-and-a-half after the first lost contact with flight 11, the Pentagon – one of the most heavily surveilled and defended buildings in the world – was left unguarded by the most sophisticated and effective defense network ever created.
“Well, the planes had their transponders turned off, they weren’t visible to radar.”
Well, thank god all those German, Japanese, Russian, Korean, Vietnamese and Iraqi pilots were kind enough to keep their transponders on during combat, otherwise our military would have never read them on radar.
Washington, D.C. (and the rest of the country, for that matter) doesn’t rely on FAA hardware to detect threats, it relies on the most sophisticated military technology ever created. The military doesn’t need transponders to track threats. I grew up on a SAC base and am quite familiar with the capabilities of our defensive radar network here in the States, it is the closest thing mankind can get to omniscient omnipresence.
Not to mention how easy it is for an aircraft to trigger a scrambled threat-response.
- At 8:14 A.M. Flight 11 missed a clearance (meaning it did not obey an order to climb). It also went NORDO, meaning that radio contact had been lost.
- At 8:21 A.M. Flight 11 turns off it’s transponder and veers radically off-course. (another case for dismissing the “transponders were needed to track planes” argument — NEADS admits they tracked the course change even after the transponder had been turned off)
Any one of the four incidents (missed clearance, radio contact, transponder, course change) would have been enough to scramble jets for a closer look. Never mind all four happening at once. Yet, this was never done.
This goes beyond incompetence, it becomes willful ignorance.
Like I said, I don’t know what went on that day, but it’s more complicated than we’ve been told. I grew up in the Air Force, and I was for the invasion of Iraq, you don’t get much more patriotic than I am. Something stinks with this 9/11 deal, it just does.
And about that Popular Mechanics article/book. If you do your reading, and you should be, you’ll find that it’s critics site much more science than PM does. If you’ve got any intellectual self-respect at all, you’ll do more than listen to the claims of your detractors, you’ll READ the substance of their counter-claims. A lot of them are compelling. A good place to start is “Debunking 9/11 Debunking” by David Ray Griffin.
Nobody is going solve this riddle in one comment section, but I can point the direction to some solid work that contradicts what we’ve been told. Check it out.
Google “Downing Street Memos”, Google “Operation Northwoods”, Google “Operation Gladio”. It’s not the answers, but it’s a start.
yeah – I see.
“A good place to start is “Debunking 9/11 Debunking” by David Ray Griffin.”
If I want the opinion of a Jew-hating Holocaust denier who claims no plane hit the Pentagon, I’ll go to the loony bin and ask an inmate.
Screw your hat on tighter.
what the hell is 9/11
Hey BBR, Chase and Logic and Reason,
All of your postings are amazingly closed minded and xenophobic. You’re all so quick to hurl insults and personalize this “conversation.” Why all the agression? All of your harsh language doesn’t make you tough or intelligent – it presents you as ignorant and foolish – your Rebulican heroes would be disappointed. Just remember things like the gulf of Tonkin and the Lusitania, and you should realize the amazing covert atrocities and brilliant PR spins that our government is capable of. Now I would challenge you to refute those “conspiracies.” Not saying one side or another is correct – it’s pretty obvious that none of us are “insiders” and PAINFULLY obvious that no one in this forum has a shred of expertise, so why don’t you all just try to approach the topic as intellectually and civilly as possible? ok? children?
Hey BBR, Chase and Logic and Reason,
All of your postings are amazingly closed minded and xenophobic. You’re all so quick to hurl insults and personalize this “conversation.” Why all the agression? All of your harsh language doesn’t make you tough or intelligent – it presents you as ignorant and foolish – your Rebulican heroes would be disappointed. Just remember things like the gulf of Tonkin and the Lusitania, and you should realize the amazing covert atrocities and brilliant PR spins that our government is capable of. Now I would challenge you to refute those “conspiracies.” Not saying one side or another is correct – it’s pretty obvious that none of us are “insiders” and PAINFULLY obvious that no one in this forum has a shred of expertise, so why don’t you all just try to approach the topic as intellectually and civilly as possible? ok? children?
Court Cases in the US District Court,
Southern District of New York,
with Attorney Jerry Leaphart:
** Dr Judy Wood, suing on behalf of the United States of America and demanding a Trial by Jury, has evidence that Directed Energy Weapons were a causal factor in the destruction of the World Trade Center:
http://drjudywood.com/articles/NIST/Qui_Tam_Wood.html
Docket No. 1:07-cv-03314-GBD
Title: Wood v. Applied Research Associates, Inc. et al
Judge: George B. Daniels
** Dr Morgan Reynolds, suing on behalf of the United States of America and demanding a Trial by Jury, has evidence that the Media broadcasted cartoons of an airplane hitting the South Tower:
http://nomoregames.net/index.php?page=911&subpage1=federal_case
Docket No. 1:07-cv-04612-GEL
Title: Dr. Morgan O. Reynolds v. Science Applications International Corp. et al
Judge: George B. Daniels
PRESS RELEASE: Scientists See WTC – Hutchison Effect Parallel – On a Washington DC local radio station, WPFW, Scientists discuss true nature of destruction of WTC Complex on 9/11 and conclude it was related to a known effect:
http://www.prlog.org/10048184-scientists-see-wtc-hutchison-effect-parallel.html
The 9/11 attacks, the 9/11 cover up, and the 9/11 “truth movement” were orchestrated by people associated with directed energy weapons and the media:
9/11 Directed Energy Weapon / TV-Fakery Suppression Timeline
http://www.checktheevidence.co.uk/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=151&Itemid=60
“Now I would challenge you to refute those “conspiracies.” Not saying one side or another is correct ”
Of course there’s no need to hurl insults– the only person I can tell has been insulting was the fella who went on about America being spiritually bankrupt and evil or whatever. Also, to call our posts “close-minded” is even more close-minded than we are– believing in the truth and arriving at this truth through reason and research is never close-minded.
I have serious problems when people start saying things like “our government is capable of this..” or “our government did this…” — we’re all capable of being involved in our government at the highest levels, in fact, some of us are. There are evil people and there are righteous people involved, at all levels. So to demonize government to the very core is illogical. Of course, individuals involved in our government are capable of terrible things, I can’t disagree there.
Although, the checks and balances provided by our constitution, as well as the extensive scrutiny provided by our mixed market economy (especially the free-market press/internet blogs etc.) makes it virtually impossible to pull off something so sinister in such a flooded population. Therefore, I’m not merely dismissing something because it’s uncomfortable, or even painful, but because the odds of these things being possible are so minuscule that they don’t deserve the individual research some of the people on this board ask us to perform. If these things are true, if we were that much more limited in our public knowledge than we’re led to believe about significant matters of public defense, then I see absolutely no reason in believing anything I read or hear from you or anyone else, especially on the internet! Where does it end? If certain individuals have that much control over what we believe, then they are almost certainly making up these very stories of conspiracy and evil about themselves.
But honestly, this all smells like a distraction to me. If there is a conspiracy, it’s that of the conspiracy theorists– spindled through the internet, rumors and allegations that distract America from real problems, from the ones we can fix, from the pragmatic solutions.
Why would I care about global warming if it’s probably just another hoax to create fear? Why would I care about the environment at all when our government is shooting us down with planes? Or tax reform, or poverty, or social security. These things take a backseat if we’re living under tyranny. How can one justify working to solve these problems when you lose all trust in democracy? Why even vote? It’s probably rigged anyway.
Stereogum tackling 9/11 Truth? Never thought I’d see the day.
Anyone who does more than a few minutes research on the subject will quickly realize: a) there was a cover-up b) We have not been told the whole story on 9/11 c) Factions of the U.S. Government were certainly involved in facilitating the attacks.
Whether or not the buildings were ‘blown-up’ is virtually irrelevant when faced with overwhelming evidence of an inside job.
At this point, anyone who still believes the OBL fable is either in denial or an imbecile.
Stereogum should stick to music criticism because honestly you guys cannot begin to touch this subject and all you can offer is a few sentences of ridicule. Maybe you should ask yourselves why the Japanese Parliament questioned their PM with evidence that the U.S.G. was involved in the attacks of 9/11? Or the former Italian President Cossiga coming forward with knowledge that it was a government black-op? Or the former German Defense Minister Von Buelow confirming CIA involvement?
Do your own research and then we will listen to your commentary. We don’t need any more parroting of the lies on this subject from folks who have poor news gathering skills. So either join the game or shut up.
Willie Nelson is a brave man for coming forward and a true American patriot.
Honors, Pete – well put. Goodness.
James Wright,
It’s always interesting the way people contradict themselves. For example, referring to those you request civility from as “children” or “ignorant and foolish.” It’s kind of cute, too, when you assume I’m Republican because I don’t believe in a conspiracy theory. I’d rather not get into a debate over parties, since I’m not a fan of either. But it’s nice to see you putting things into such basic partisan terms, preventing hope of ending a rigid two party system. I’m quite liberal, but I haven’t seen much from the Democrats lately. I have no intention of remaining civil, nor will I disguise my personal attacks as civility, douche bag.
Your attempts at reciting history to impress is interesting, since you fail at bringing up a valid similar situation to be compared with 9/11. The Gulf of Tonkin incident would be relevant paralleled to the lies regarding evidence pointing to weapons of mass destruction. The US Government lied about an attack on a war ship. Zero US civilians, let alone thousands, were mercilessly slaughtered. To go from lying to murder is quite the jump. For example, if I were to say I respected your opinion, I’d be a liar, not a murderer. I would never argue that the government hasn’t lied about the events surrounding 9/11, but to argue they planned it is is asinine.
The sinking of the RMS Lusitania is a foolish and misguided example. The Lusitania was a ship sailing through waters where a war was already taking place, the passengers were warned of this, and the Germans (the enemy) did sink it. Unfortunately, the Germans sunk the right boat, since we were supplying their enemies with it’s cargo. Actually, it was a British ship, and was acting as a military ship under British instruction. The conspiracy theory involving the Lusitania posits that Great Britain planned it’s sinking. You may have wanted to bring up the USS Maine, a naval ship sunk by it’s own magazines but was blamed on the Spanish, assisting in causing the Spanish-American war. But you didn’t, most likely because you aren’t very smart. Anyway, I’d have the same thing to say about that as I did the Gulf of Tonkin incident.
You also could mention that there were similar conspiracy theories surrounding the bombing of Pearl Harbor. However, those were also unfounded and remain unproven. So good job on not bringing up valid points, which I still could have easily shot down.
So there’s my response to your “conspiracies.” Or factual events. Your choice. Either way you’re wrong.
My response to being referred to as close-minded, xenophobic, ignorant, foolish, and a child and then being asked to approach this civilly? Fuck your civility. This is the internet. You can pretend to be the bigger man all you want if it makes you feel good, but your post is just as arrogant and insulting as mine. And I’m willing to take it a step further. Your website is boring and unimpressive, and from what I can see your video skills seem laughable at best. Your camera work is boring and cliche, and your editing looks cheap and amateur. Do me a favor, next time you want to link your career to your foolish opinion, try out two things:
1) Brush up on your high school history.
2) Grow some God damn talent.
Even if anyone is incredibly stupid enough to believe our country would attack itself, by rigging up explosives in the twin towers, how, pray tell do they explain how someone who has never flown a jumbo jet before could aim the plane to collide at the exact point where the towers fell. This simple fact completely debunks any conspiracy theory. Everyone has seen the film time and time again that shows the towers collapse exactly where the planes collided with the building. For this reason, all who claim 911 was inside job should be ridiculed for the rest of their lives and need to have their collective asses kicked all the way in. If anyone would spew such twaddle in the presence of myself, that is exactly the treatment they would receive from me and I doubt there is a jury on this planet that would convict me.
I think it’s fascinating that most intelligent people who have examined the evidence will not argue over the Anthrax attacks being deployed by our own government – it’s even admitted on mainstream outlets like the History Channel. It was a weaponized form which was traced straight back to Fort Detrick. And it just so happened that the two senators(Leahy and Daschle) that were targeted were the exact same two who were holding up the passing of the PATRIOT Act. So you have a clear motive for the attack which BTW is something that would be hard to pin on Al CIAeda. Clear trail pointing directly to a black-op and what happens? Investigation closed.
And most intelligent people do not argue over the assassination of JFK as being an inside job, especially now that we have multiple confessions from people like ex-CIA E. Howard Hunt which was published in Rolling Stone in 2007. JFK wanted more transparency in government and was critical of the CIA. He also happened to want to end the private federal reserve bank which is about as ‘federal’ as FedEx. He knew of the corruption and how deep it went but the powers that be were not going to let it happen.
And again most intelligent people who are well-informed will not argue over the importance of the role of the CIA in overthrowing peaceful democratically elected leaders in third world countries and replacing them with dictators such as in Central America, the Middle East and in Africa.
The lovely CIA has been caught red-handed on numerous occasions shipping the drugs into the U.S. creating a black budget and hooking specific populations on the drugs and then getting them jailed and in the criminal system for life.
But still with such a lovely track record, the American public is somehow supposed to trust implicitly that our own government would NOT attack it’s own people on September 11th based on some blind faith that the USG is altruistic and has the interests of the people in mind?
Bullshit. How completely blinded do you have to be to not understand what has happened is part of a plan to target you. You are the target. The police state apparatus which includes the curtailing of civil liberties, the trillion dollar economy raping war machine along with total surveillance of every American individual is all happening because of one singular event — September 11th.
And somehow to think that the people who would benefit most from an attack on the U.S.- remember ‘Cui Bono’ or ‘who benefits’ – should somehow be excluded from the suspect list because it’s quote-unquote “stupid”, as if that’s a valid reason?
All I can say is this country is in serious, serious trouble if people continue to be this brain-dead when it comes to this issue.
Actually I believe half are brain-dead an the other half are complete chicken-shit.
And BTW just for the record since this is a music blog — if you folks at Stereogum knew what some of your biggest music heroes – and I mean biggest of the biggest – thought about this issue and their awareness you would quickly realize the difference between a generation that came to age during Vietnam and a generation that is completely consumed by mindless distractions and has no critical thinking ability and depends on others to form an opinion. Luckily there are some today who do question.
Dear Pete, Lynn and all other 9/11 Truthers,
Let me preface by saying I’m sure you’ll try to discredit me in some way. I particularly enjoy how you guys scream ignorance when anyone calls you out on your warped conspiracies but you are completely allowed to ignore our arguments.
I was in New York City on 9/11. I was on Duane and Broadway when the first plane hit. Maybe you know where that is relative to WTC, maybe you don’t and will take the time to look it up. It doesn’t really matter to me. I saw the second plane slam into the building. I ended the day covered head to toe in soot. Remember those photos of people stumbling around lower Manhattan post-collapse? That was me.
Afterwards family and friends spent countless hours cleaning and searching Ground Zero. I am about has first person as you can get.
There were no bombs, no implosions, no nothing. The towers fell because of those planes that slammed into it. I think I am qualified to say that. Please give up on your fantasies of a super government conspiracy. It is incredibly improbable, idiotic and offensive to everyone that witnessed that awful day.
there’s a bit of ignorance on both sides…Willie’s entitled to his opinion…one that I share as well. Bravo Willie, bravo…now don’t bogart that joint, my friend.
Even if Mr. Nelson is correct (and I seriously doubt he is), I don’t think he deserves accolades as a “true American patriot” for “coming forward” with this information. It’s obvious his opinions on 9/11 have no basis in fact and are simply the musings of an aging stoner.
I’ll concede that I have no hard evidence one way or the other and am poorly researched on the subject. I’m also pretty fucking sure that Willie Nelson is in the same boat.
Don’t celebrities realize they shouldn’t say shit like that on the air? Especially at Willie’s age with his well-documented history of marijuana abuse.
Oh, and this is a music blog.
Believe what you want to believe but one thing is certain: Willie Nelson still deserves our ridicule!
I love how hundreds of top engineers all over the world explained in graphic detail why the towers could not have collapsed because of the fire or the impact of a plane, yet American media and websites quote people like Rosie O’Donnell and Willie Nelson on the subject. Oh that’s right, you guys are also the ones who think an article in “popular mechanics” debunked the so-called conspiracy theories! Fucking pathetic!
>> “Remember those photos of people stumbling around lower Manhattan post-collapse? That was me.” – mos def >>
wow – multiple perspectives all at once [and on quite a historic day, no doubt!]
I don’t know exactly what happened and I live in NYC and witnessed everything first hand. I even knew people who were killed.
Here’s what I do know: The country is worse off then it was before 9/11. Gasoline is ridiculously expensive. The world’s opinion of us has dropped dramatically. My money doesn’t get me half as far abroad as it did ten years ago. I have far less privacy then I used to. Thousands upon thousands of people are dead in an endless war that is loosely connected to an attack that took place almost seven years ago that still has no satisfying explanation.
We fucked up. On what level, I don’t know. It would be terrible if the most extreme conspiracy theories are true. Chances are the truth lies somewhere in between all the polarized arguments. However, it frightens me to think that people who are most likely around my age are not willing to question things more. And whether you think Willie is right or wrong, shouldn’t change your opinion about his music. Boycott Willie? That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve read on here all day.
Willie Nelson can say and believe whatever he wants.
I Like Music.
Steel melts at 2795 degrees Fahrenheit. Jet fuel (limited supply in regards to what is carried on the Boeing Craft) burns at 1796 degrees Fahrenheit. It could potentially burn slightly hotter, but for far less time.
So, if both towers, composed of roughly 100,000 tons of steel arranged for maximum support and durability interlaced through a few hundred thousand pounds of concrete collapsed due to a melted infrastructure caused by a jet fuel fire that burned for 104 minutes, something doesn’t add up. If it burned for 104 minutes, which is what is reported, then it likely didn’t burn above a temperature of 1796 degrees. If that melted steel and collapsed both towers then physics and elemental properties were reworked on 9/11.
Not to mention the fact that the towers fell, directly in on their own footprint at a faster speed then their respective weight would allow in a vacuum. Forget that little physics tidbit and lets say the top part of both towers melted, completely and that the structure was damaged enough to cause it to collapse. How can a 110 story building, damaged at the top, fall in on itself and not be progressively slowed down by the floors beneath it? Each floor composed of steel reinforcements and concrete? How does a 500,000 ton building collapse in a neat and surprisingly compact pile at an inexplicable speed.
I’m not saying planes didn’t hit the towers. And I’m not pointing the finger directly or trying to take away from the undeniable tragedy that was 9/11. But there are plenty of things that don’t add up and make you scratch your head if you’re willing.
What jumptocomclusions said…
Who’s got the brain of JFK…
TGIF!
“How can a 110 story building, damaged at the top, fall in on itself and not be progressively slowed down by the floors beneath it? Each floor composed of steel reinforcements and concrete? How does a 500,000 ton building collapse in a neat and surprisingly compact pile at an inexplicable speed.”
BECAUSE IT WAS HIT BY A PLANE! WITH THE ENTIRE TOP HALF OF THE BUILDING CRASHING ONTO THE BOTTOM OF THE BUILDING! ARE YOU PEOPLE IDIOTS?
not the top half, the top sixth maybe. and hit by a plane yes, but the wtc towers were designed to withstand that and more. interviews with actual WTC structural engineers have confirmed that. by design all load bearing buildings are required to be able to at the very least support five times the amount of weight it will actually support. given that at the time the WTC were built they were the largest buildings on the planet and no doubt a symbol of American might I’m sure they designed it with a few extra precautions and support systems. and again, jet fuel can’t melt all that steel, let alone any of it. and where are the giant middle support beams that the building crashed down around? shouldn’t those be standing? shouldn’t at least part of them be standing? where are they? and further how do both towers fall in ten seconds? mirror images of each other? thats basically free falling. A ball dropped off the top of the tower would take 9 seconds to hit the ground. I doubt it would make it that fast if it were impeded by sound structural steel and concrete.
I’m not an idiot. But if you aren’t willing to at least check out numbers before calling other people idiots then it seems a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
Suggested googling: “Gravity,” “Melting point of steel,” “naivete”
I am not going to challenge Willie Nelson’s thoughts toward the Twin Towers tragedy. His thoughts belong to him and those who may be in agreement. Besides that, even though two-thirds of the American people disagreed, the government appointed Warren Commission demanded their decision be marked as FINAL after stating Lee Harvey Oswald’s single, magic bullet did so much damage in November, 1963, in Dallas. According to a recent special on this subject on the History Channel, over two-thirds of the American public still disagree with Mr. Warren and Co. and their White House sponsors. I’m not saying Willie Nelson is right, I’m just tired of challenging!
how do we really know it was john wilkes booth that shot lincoln? mary todd was there too.
wow just look at all of this.
9/11 conspiracies are the most ridiculous shit ever. Suddenly everyone’s a structural engineer all of a sudden. Humanity, you disappoint me so much.
it’s stupid to boycott an artist because you disagree with their politics, opinions, or ideas. hands down. sure, i don’t agree with willie nelson or john vanderslice when it comes to this, but does that somehow taint all of the music they’ve made? definitely not. ridiculous.
I can’t get over how aggressive and angry the folks condemning Willie and the 911 truth seekers are.
Its like your trying to drown out the questions or stifle the discussion.
Your comments have a smell of fear to them.
His opinion doesn’t change the quality of his music one bit; Crazy will always be a beautiful song. But a little bit of beauty isn’t worth supporting these ideas being broadcast to millions of people. He’ll always have the right to believe in them, and speak them, but I’m not going to continue buying him air-time.
dear oh my lanta.
you can google the melting point of steel as much as you like, fact is, steel doesn’t have to melt to become structurally unstable, heck, steel can become structurally unstable because of the impact of, i dunno, maybe a Boeing travelling at cruising speed?
Before you start quoting science make sure you understand science, but that goes for everyone who’s dissecting these facts they got off wikipedia.
all these arguments, all these conspiracies are in some way flawed, but it’s good you guys are questioning them. it’s a good indication that at least some thinking is going on, i’m south african, and the general opinion here is that there not a lot of that going around over there..
these comments=lolcats
I just need to jump in here again and mention that you’ve all been properly brainwashed if you’re still arguing over sci-fi theories about melting steel and exploding buildings when there’s tangible research & valid facts regarding Bush, Pakistan, the ISI, and the hijackers which ties them all together. The buildings are a distraction. Follow the money trail.
All I know is my PAGER is blowin up and 9/11 ain’t got SHIT to do wit it — WORD!
hey syd, 9/11 is like vietnam, you remember vietnam, right?
If you don’t educate yourself by independent research, then you are essentially relying on the mainstream media to form your opinions.
And that’s exactly what the establishment wants — for you to hold THEIR opinions and views that are reinforced daily through the media. They want you to be lazy and not look into the issues that directly affect you and read a few articles here and there and walk away with thinking that YOU have formed your own opinion. Chances are you’ve done nothing of the sort.
The other way they deal with dissenting views is by using ridicule. Not by engaging in intelligent discussion but by plain old ridicule, which works quite well for those who don’t recognize it as manipulation.
Bottom line: Think for yourself and question everything that is intentionally thrown at you to “inform’ you.
Sure, he seems like a loony, but why call for a boycott?
Has America advanced any further than the burning of Beatles records in the 60s?
Why don’t you listen to someone from the American Institute of Architects, who has also debunked the Popular Science theories.
http://www.911blogger.com/node/10025
Also Logic, I find your name funny. Don’t listen to what you view as logical, listen to science. Stop with the fucking group think.
For God’s sake, not liking Bush is not reason to say he allowed 9/11 to happen.
And it’s even more fucking ridiculous to say Bush is evil and has done worse things than 9/11 in the open. Bush has never killed a single damn person.
Learn some fucking politics. We need to be in Iraq and we need to be there for at least another 5 years.
willie nelson has always been a wierdo, this does nothing to change that conception.
9/11 “truthers” make me LOL.
Alright, it’s time for all liberals, conservatives, etc., to just sit down and sort through this proliferation of horseshit conspiracy theories for the tiny corn-shaped nuggets of truth:
9/11 was NOT an inside job
global warming DOES exist
someone else probably popped Kennedy
and so forth yadda yadda et cetra
and for the love of stereogum, people don’t pump millions of dollars into the umpteenth “willie and friends wank-o-rama” tour every year because of his political ideals–they do it because even the most straight-foward and stat quo middle class american needs to lean back, spark one up, and say fuck it to the world for a few hours. Last time I checked, wooly willie wasn’t winning many swing states in the ’08 primaries.
Do you idiots really think the building was wired with explosives before 9/11, then planned to have the planes highjacked and flown into the buildings, then set off the bombs to colapse what`s left? You need a job, a life and therapy.
Frankly I’m stunned this comment thread has turned into something ugly.
“Bush has never killed a single damn person.”
You know this is ridiculous, right? Governor Bush killed quite a few people, didn’t he, let alone President Bush.
His wife certainly killed someone.
Don’t believe the conspiracy theories? That’s fine, neither do I.
But don’t speak for the victims of 9-11 just to bully around the conspiracy believers.
Conspiracy or not, one thing is for sure- Bush exploited the tragedy, and used 9-11 as a pretext to do a whole bunch of awful shit.
I LOVE THIS PAGE RIGHT HERE GUYS WELL DONE
Uhh.. willie’s right. the thing was obviously imploded. WTC 7 fell down for no reason whatsoever, and there was no media coverage whatsoever.
NEWSFLASH: The same guy owned all 3 buildings, and they were losing money for him. Lots and lots of money. And the cost to take the buildings down legitimately would have been way too high.
They killed several birds with one stone. Turn off the TV and THINK FOR YOURSELVES people
oh jesus people look what you just made me do, look at this IM from my girlfriend:
“no, i meant for valentines day, but i guess thats not in the agenda”
THANKS, assholes
“WTC 7 fell down for no reason whatsoever, and there was no media coverage whatsoever.”
You do see how that’s an argument AGAINST conspiracy and not for it, right?
Why would the Evil Government Black Ops CIA Fascist Brownshirt Brigade wire up a building to explode…that was completely inconsequential?
What, did they think that the Towers falling down wouldn’t make the news? “Better rig up that building no one’s ever heard of, too! That’ll bring the news coverage!”
Just like all truther fantasies, it takes five seconds to debunk. But just like all truther fantasies, the tinfoil hat losers will ignore the logic and go back to their crazy ravings.
What, did they think that the Towers falling down wouldn’t make the news? “Better rig up that building no one’s ever heard of, too! That’ll bring the news coverage!”
Dear Willfully Ignorant Bender,
Please examine what organizations had offices in WTC7 and get back to us. You may find that your assumption above was awfully embarrassing.
And again, I’d love to know what you make of the ISI, Pakistan, Bush, Terrorist connection. Little hard to dismiss when it’s all right there on paper with no physics necessary to understand it, no?
who gives a rat’s rectum what Willie or any celeb thinks?
shut up and sing, douchebag.
zeitgeist
“Please examine what organizations had offices in WTC7 and get back to us. You may find that your assumption above was awfully embarrassing.”
I know who the tenents were. I also know a red herring when I see one. Try your TrutherSpeak tactics (“do your research,” “follow the money,” “I’m just asking questions”) on someone who isn’t as sane as I am. Either give your full explanation or save the bandwidth. Anything else is a waste of my time.
“Just like all truther fantasies, it takes five seconds to debunk. But just like all truther fantasies, the tinfoil hat losers will ignore the logic and go back to their crazy ravings.”
I’m not a psychic, really… I just know these loons.
The only thing you bend bender is logical reasoning and clear analytical thinking
I have no idea why it makes people like “Bender Bending Rodriguez” so angry to hear this stuff. Why would people make something like this up? Just for laughs? Go watch your CNN and Fox News you conformist prole…
I don’t understand why this makes people like Bender? What motivation is there to make all of this up? Go watch your CNN and Fox News you prole…
to logic reason, eh, rodriguez etc, as an impartial UK observer of this thread i would like to suggest you watch the sydney lumet film 12 angry men. Your statements, abusive and intolerant language reminded me of the final scenes of that film. In it the last member of the jury who refuses to change his mind even when faced with enough overwhelming circumstantial evidence to convince his peers, refuses to listen to the reasoned arguments of others, just like you are doing here. This is just an observation, do with it as u will, but beware, your words and deeds will be judged by others on here.
To Bender Bendy McBenderson,
Since when did it become so wrong to question things? Furthermore, I find it funny that since your all safe and snug behind your computer screen, you talk big and put down everyone, when in all actuality, if this were something like 12 Angry Men, and we were in a room together, you would be either the quiet guy, or the one going along with everyone else. Quit putting people down just because you’re scared of the truth. It’s pathetic.