Chili Petty
A lot of reasons to blog about Tom Petty these days. With a full scale tour, a Peter Bogdanovich doc, a third solo album (future "classic" Highway Companion, out 7/25), and a hit XM radio show, the Last DJ isn't slowing down in his thirtieth year with the Heartbreakers.
The juicy story, however, is: does Red Hot Chili Peppers' "Dani California" rip off "Mary Jane's Last Dance"?
Jared Morris thought so ("The chord progression, the melody, the tempo, the key, the lyrical theme ... they're identical"), and posted excerpts from the tunes on his blog. Chili Pepper fans are not amused.
Here's "Dani California": QT | WMV
What do you think?
Rolling Stone inquired with University Of Chicago musicologist Travis Jackson:
"The opening parts of both songs have very similar grooves, they use pretty much the same chord progressions and the ways the melodies are patterned are similar. And it pretty much stops there. Chord progressions are really hard to claim as a basis [for a lawsuit]. That's a pretty standard groove. You would have to do a lot more to say there's outright copying."If Vanilla Ice can get away with "Ice Ice Baby," I think RHCP are in the clear.
Incidentally, if someone could answer this for me, you get a gold star. When "You Don't Know How It Feels" came out, they replaced the pot reference in the lyrics for radio and MTV and "joint" became something that sounds like "nowwwwj." Any idea?
Posted at 10:17 AM
Tags: Red Hot Chili Peppers
"Incidentally, if someone can answer this for me..."
uh.. is there a question in there somewhere?
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The songs sound remarkably alike. I can't say if I think RHCP intentionally ripped off Tom Petty or if they subconsciously did. It seems obvious to me that however it happened, Mary Jane was involved.
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I always assumed that they just distorted the word joint. It really doesn't sound like a replacement word at all.
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Actually...I haven't heard the edited version in a long time but I remember thinking at one point that it almost sounds like they played the word "joint" backward. I dunno though, I was like 13 when I came up with that idea.
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I always heard it as, "Let's get/To the point/Let's roll/Another nowww", where it sounded like the "now" was grabbed from somewhere else in the song and pasted in there.
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In some versions of the song, they changed "Roll another joint" to "Hit another joint," like 'let's go to another bar.'
Maybe they thought that "Hit another joint" still sounded like a pot reference so they changed "joint" to "tniiioooj."
Either way, ti saw emal.
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Something I find interesting I've yet to hear mentioned: Both "Dani California" and "Mary Jane" were produced by Rick Rubin.
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it's the word "joint" backwards!!!!!!
come on!!!
PS me and two friends played a cover of "You Don't know how it feels" for my 4th Grade talent show! we fucking kicked ass...I was Tom.
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I urge everyone to listen to the opening chords of The Jayhawk's "Waiting for the Sun." Mary Jane's Last Dance ripped off the Jayhawks!
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Posted on this a while back. You can get a couple more mixes/mash-ups of the two songs via my site, one in the post and one in the comments:
http://cableandtweed.blogspot.com/2006/05/tom-petty-chili-peppers-together-at.html
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Vanilla Ice didn't get away with Ice Ice Baby, he was sued to high heaven...
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I was about to say that Vanilla Ice didn't get away with it, but Stu beat me to it, I believe he stated he was sued for $2 million in an interview I saw with him once.
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The solo of Dani California is also a rip-off of Jimi's Purple Haze... Irony or rip-off you decide...
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dont be a prick, matthew. i dont wanna sound mean, but the solo isnt at all a rip off, it was a conscious "quoting" of purple haze. john frusciante intentionally did it as homage to jimi, and he openly praises it and talks about it in interviews.
in terms of dani california and mary jane's last dance, the intros sound similar, but it stops there. the only similarity are the CHORDS, and that is one of those very common chord progressions.
to claim one artist as the owner of a progression of chords is just a disgusting display of idiocy. you simply dont understand music if you think that only one person is allowed to play a certain order of chords. its bullshit and it pisses me off so stop talking about it.
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The similarity does not stop with the chords. The lyrical content of both songs is remarkably similar.
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Nick, dont pick on Matthew. You obviously don't understand the works of Babyshambles and the originality of Pete Doherty. Everything american pales in comparison.
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The chord progression is the same. The tempo is the same. But here's the saddest part. The lyrical content (as the poster above me noted) is the same. If you're gonna copy someone, the easiest thing to do is change the tempo. But the easiest, easiest thing to do is come up with original words:
She grew up in an Indiana town
Had a good looking Mama who never was around.
Getting born in the State of Mississippi
Papa was a copper and Mama was a hippie
On another note, not only did Vanilla Ice get sued and pay royalties to Queen / Bowie but Vanilla Ice samples Under Pressure which is different from covering a song and passing it off as an original composition. Comparing sampling in rap to Peppers / Petty situation is off the mark.
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Speaking of "Mary Jane's Last Dance",hasn't anyone noticed that the "Who,Ohh Ohh Ohh,Hoo-Ohh" backup vocals are identical to the vocal line on The Pretenders "Middle Of The Road"?And doesn't Tom Petty look remarkably similar to Chrissie Hynde?Has anyone ever seen the two in the same room together?Just sayin'.
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What's a "Tom Petty"?
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I remember watching something on TV regarding the censorship, then it showed a clip of Petty at a show saying something along the lines of, "they replaced 'joint' with 'bleghbla', which, to me, sounds a lot worse than a joint."
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Never mind Mary Jane, what are the chances that RHCP are fans of Blur's Country House???
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Are you sure Vanilla Ice had to pay royalties? I remember the judge deciding that the extra eighth-note was enough of a difference that Mr. Ice got away with it.
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Well, you remember incorrectly, then. Vanilla Ice settled with Queen out of court.
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Ha ... OK.
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dag is spot on, the first thing i thought of when i heard 'dani' was indeed blur's country house.
i do a mash-up if i could stand listening to rhcp for more than a minute...
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Good call on the Blur "Country House" similarity. That was my first thought, but then I'M COOL LIKE THAT.
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also, "What I've got, I got to get and put it in you" should really be changed to "What I'd like, is I'd like to hug and kiss you."
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Before this Tom Petty/Chili Peppers controversy began my five-year old son said Dani California sounded like Sweet Home Alabama so we put the two together.You can hear it at my website:
http://philcobrothers.blogspot.com/
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Pearl Jam's "Yellow Ledbetter" was an homage to Jimi Hendrix. This song just rips off Purple Haze.
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The Jayhawks opened for Petty back in '92 or so, and yeah, about a year later he pretty much ripped off their "Waiting For The Sun" to release "Mary Jane's Last Dance."
... 'Course, 'bout a year later, Shawn Colvin robbed 'em both (especially Petty) when she released "Sunny Came Home."
Whatcha gonna do?
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If there weren't similarities in songs, the entire mash-up genre wouldn't exist.
Green Day's "When I Come Around", Better Than Ezra's "Good", and Semisonic's "Closing Time" are all built on the same chord progression. (My old band used to do an amalgam of the first two about a decade ago.)
R.E.M.'s "The One I Love" and Oasis' "Morning Glory" are built on the same chord progressions. (Hence the mash I did.)
Muse's new single sounds a lot like Adam Ant's "Room at the Top". And the list goes on.
Certainly, "Mary Jane" and "Dani California" are similar. But that doesn't change the fact that "Dani California" is just weak, period.
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I seem to recall seeing a news item on MTV news or something about the "joint" switch ... I think it was "let's roll another down..." which makes no sense, as lyrics never do when sanctimonious moralists force their change.
"rollin down the street, smokin smokin" (instead of "smokin eeeeeendo") from the radio cut of "gin and juice."
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Maybe RHCP's complete lack of originality is what is spurring all the "omg it sounds like [insert song here]" comments.
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I posted on this as well - and feel i make some pretty solid points on this DJ. I feel its just a sad attempt at 15 minutes of fame for this no name dj. http://www.themusicnazi.com/?p=402
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I think it is more a matter of influence than theft. Tom Petty knows all about being influenced...JUST LISTEN TO SOME NEIL YOUNG RECORDS!!!
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This isn't the first time. Check out the Chili Peppers' "Higher Ground". Almost a word-for-word, note-for-note dupe of a Stevie Wonder(ful) tune! Unfuckingbelievable!
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/r/red+hot+chili+peppers/higher+ground_20114860.html
http://www.lyricsdepot.com/Stevie-Wonder/higher-ground.html
Remakes aside, the sock-on-the-penis stuff was pretty innovative.
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If John Fruityauntie "quoted" Jimi Hendrix, do the Chili's pay royalties to the Hendrix estate the way emcees do when they say a track "contains elements of 'Song' by Artist"? I'm thinking that because John "is in love with sound" (Balzary, M [2006]) he wouldn't want to be seen as biting a dead man's shit.
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the word joint was played backwards in the radio/video edit. that's why it sounds like "noij", which only calls more attention to the word. chord progressions cannot be plagerised. there is legal precedent for this. george harrison won his case when he he was sued for "my sweet lord" using the same chord progression as "he's so fine". tom petty has used chord progressions that have been used before, it's unavoidable. there are only so many chord combinations, especially in a narrow genre like rock. this is not a big deal. the chili peppers have been stealing good ideas their whole career. the problem is they just aren't very interesting.
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Just yesterday (before reading this story) I heard Dani California coming from a car and swore it was Mary Jane's Last Dance. I even made my friend play em back-to-back.
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The tempo is slower in Last dance for Mary Jane, and the guitar is very very different. Of course the theme is similar, but how many songs are already out there about a bad *ss girl? Gimmie a break. I think the whole situation is pathetic. When you get into the meat of both songs, they lose all similarty that they ever started with. Completly different style and feeling to both songs. Both bands rock too, so I think it's looks pretty desperate for Petty to be making such gold digs.
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get a life, there are a million and one songs that use the same chords.
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Don't forget how much "Last Nite" by the Strokes sounds like "American Girl" by Petty. Nearly identical intro.
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I think all this has been blown ridiculously out of proportion.
First, in rebuttal to a comment above, RHCP did not "rip off" Higher Ground by Stevie Wonder. They did an acknowledged, credited COVER.
Secondly---I am a BIG fan of both the Chili Peppers and Tom Petty. Do the songs sound similar? Sure they do, they have a similar chord progression. A chord progression that has been used by quite a few bands, actually. Lyrical similarities, I believe, are a coincidence. The Chili Peppers created the character of Dani California on their album 'By the Way'. The lyrics represent the last part of her story---Californication was another part.
So---do I think the Chili Peppers ripped of Tom Petty? No. And guess what? According to interviews, Tom Petty doesn't think so either. That's enough for me.
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