Bono Or Stipe?
Today, Slate revisits a topic that has sparked many a debate in the past twenty years. Their subheading, "Who Was The Best Rock Band Of The '80s?" is dangerous in its assumptions, but everyone loves pairing these two off in a head to head. And when we say everyone, we mean it! Just three days ago Stylus did a similar feature -- but we'll join Slate in their limited purview. U2 vs. REM: Which band was better in the '80s? The Slate piece comes from a true blue R.E.M. fan:
Either you loved U2, or you liked them fine. Either you loved R.E.M., or you hated them. The delicacy at the heart of R.E.M.'s 1980s albums fostered introspection and brotherhood among those of us who loved them in those years: introspection, because the songs pushed the listener inward, finding significance in every line; brotherhood, because we had to band together to defend our heroes against the unfeeling jerks who found R.E.M. precious and maddeningly opaque. I assumed, of course, that those jerks were U2 fans.We know it's tough to keep the bands' latter-day sins from entering the dialogue, so do your best. But speaking of ... U2 has a best-of collection U218 Singles coming out 11/20, and the new contribution to that is floating around today. It sounds like a stream rip (and the beginning may have another song woven in unintentionally), but it clears up just in time for that swelling, formulaic, feel-good U2 hook. Download the MP3 at Antuana.
How do they keep writing the same song but not the same song? Genius! Anyway, like we said: Love it or hate it, keep it clean -- and keep it to the '80s!
Posted at 5:49 PM
Tags: R.E.M. | U2
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Similar article at Stylus Magazine.
http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/u2-vs-rem.htm
Oh, by the way...
R.E.M. all the way!
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Similar article at Stylus Magazine.
http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/u2-vs-rem.htm
Oh, by the way...
R.E.M. so much less cringe-worthy than U2 in the 80s.
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R.E.M. by far! So many great records...Murmur, Reckoning, Life's Rich Pagent, Document, Green, Automatic For The People, even New Adventures In Hi-Fi was pretty great.
Sins or not, R.E.M. never did anything too terribly embarrassing to sully their reputation (just boring music...I even liked "Shiny Happy People"!). I can barely even listen to old U2 anymore.
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I can listen to Bob Dylan, Neil Young and stuff but to me, R.E.M. is for old people
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i do believe the Cure was a better band than both of them.
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as great as r.e.m. were they never did anything as great as the unforgettable fire. that sad:
murmur edges out boy
reckoning beats out october
fables vs. war is a tough one...i used to choose war but now notasmuch
unforgettable fire beats lifes rich pageant
joshua tree beats document
green beats rattle and hum
now i have u2 edging out r.e.m. 3-2 with one tie
although if we add ep's and throw down chronic town against underabloodredsky it's complete draw
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> Similar article at Stylus Magazine.
Whoa! Must be in the air. It's a better debate if kept to the '80s; to that we think Stipe would stipulate ;) Thanks, Gary!
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Everytime I hear R.E.M. I think of Corky and the Juice Pigs,"Heeeeey Pooooony, thats the wrong noise!"
Or in other words this is One vote for U2, At least they haven't falling off the Radar like R.E.M.
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It's so "in" to say REM was the better band, but you can't deny U2's influence. They might've sucked post 1990, but this is an 80s debate.
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It's so "in" to say REM was the better band, but you can't deny U2's influence. They might've sucked post 1990, but this is an 80s debate.
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U2.
R.E.M. had some good 80s songs but Stipe's tendency to whine even when he didn't mean to means they fall to, oh, 10th place or something, behind the Cure, New Order, love and rockets....I could go on and on. Oh, and R.E.M. NEVER put out anything as sublime as The Unforgettable Fire.
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U2.
R.E.M. had some good 80s songs but Stipe's tendency to whine even when he didn't mean to means they fall to, oh, 10th place or something, behind the Cure, New Order, love and rockets....I could go on and on. Oh, and R.E.M. NEVER put out anything as sublime as The Unforgettable Fire.
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U2.
R.E.M. had some good 80s songs but Stipe's tendency to whine even when he didn't mean to means they fall to, oh, 10th place or something, behind the Cure, New Order, love and rockets....I could go on and on. Oh, and R.E.M. NEVER put out anything as sublime as The Unforgettable Fire.
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Q: U2 or R.E.M.?
A: Husker Du. Yeeeeeaaaaargh!
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*cough* Pixies *cough*
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"unforgettable fire beats life's rich pageant"
That's actually incorrect. Your opinion is wrong.
Just kidding. In all seriousness, R.E.M. would beat U2 and even shove Edge's delay pedal down Bono's throat. Bill Berry's eyebrows would then destroy "the other two guys that don't have cool nicknames". R.E.M. would stand upon the ashes of U2's fallen kingdom and then bust out some "Life and How to Live It" as the setting sun reflects on Bono's shattered shades.
I actually love U2, but versus R.E.M...no question needed.
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u2 was never worth a thing. bono was always a pretentious twat. he sounds like crap. the music was uninteresting. pure schmaltz.
its all about r.e.m. michael stipe with hair=boss.
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I don't see why it's "in" to say R.E.M. was a better band, except for the simple fact that they actually WERE (and, if they're playing with Bill Berry, still are) a better band.
I'd agree with Javier, except Fables definitely beats War, I'd tie Document and Joshua Tree and Chronic Town is far better than any of U2's non-studio albums (not to mention it was the first thing R.E.M. released).
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Talking Heads.
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I'm a fan of both bands, but I find Michael Stipe's ego to be funny, while Bono just comes off as being pretentious. Also, Michael Stipe is friends with Courtney Love and Tori Amos, which makes him cool as well.
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I think REM wins on "Reckoning" alone.
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> Michael Stipe is friends with Courtney Love
> and Tori Amos, which makes him cool as well.
But is he friends with the Pope? ;)
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^ don't forget oprah
cuz we all know the hierarchy is pope, god, oprah
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Stipe.
http://theshermanfoundation.blogspot.com/2006/11/one-bank.html
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good point, but the pope isn't insane, or musically talented, or related to nirvana somehow. Also, Bono isn't as friendly w/ the current pope. Incidentally, REM and U2 have covered each other to an extent, because u2 have snippeted everybody hurts, and automatic baby, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YQHPgWBj7s, had stipe on vocals. Also u2 are essentially always serious, whereas rem have songs like shiny happy people and pop song 89 that aren't, and are more fun. I think that's the first time shiny happy people has ever been used as a positive, but rem + kate pierson + hand claps is a good thing, and stipe never had a mullet.
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duran duran.
in the u2 vs rem, u2 all the way. to reiterate what was said earlier, post-achtung, baby they've just been so-so; but come on. in some poll "one" was the most recognized song worldwide. or something.
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SONIC YOUTH!
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i think a better battle would be new order vs. the cure.
(new order wins btw)
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sonic youth vs. the butthole surfers
(even though i am from texas sonic youth wins hands down)
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Honestly, I feel it is mutual TIE.
Speaking of bands of influence from the 80's...umm...The Replacements and The Pixies. Still influencing music to this day.
But I know this is an REM vs. U2 debate so I say they are both pioneers and stand as equals as stated earlier.
And you know what is sad, there honestly isn't any REALLY solid bands like those in the 80's alternative underground who put out really good stuff. :( To much crap like My Chemical Romance, barf!
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What about the Police??? I know they broke up in '84, but they were easily the best band of the early 80's.
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*cough* Pixies *cough*
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the smiths or the replacements
out of the 2 mentioned u2.
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so i'm guessing the smiths haven't been mentioned yet because they're considered a pop band as opposed to rock?
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80-84 were my high school years, and REM were my favorite band from the start - Chronic Town in 1982...They remain my sentimental favorite band today, for any number of personal reasons, mostly involving girls and weed.
Having said that, The Minutemen were the best band of the 1980's - hell, one of the very best R'n'R units ever, and they only needed half a decade to do it.
In a different reality, the question should probably be:
Who is the best band of the 1980's, Minutemen or Husker Du?
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To whomever said R.E.M. is for old people...go listen to Murmur, Reckoning and Chronic Town and eat your words. That stuff would take the indie world by storm if it were released today.
The ironic thing is that R.E.M. probably wouldn't even put themselves on the top 10 list of '80s bands...they're probably say Pylon, Love Tractor, Husker Du, and The 'mats were the best bands of the '80s.
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Let me preface this by saying that R.E.M. is my favorite band.
With that, I think that during the 80's, they were about the same. I was introduced to U2 first, because my parents listened to them (I was but a wee lad), and I found R.E.M. when I was 8 when they came out with Monster. Thus, I don't really have perspective on this matter. Looking back, however, U2's work during the 80's was fantastic, while I think R.E.M. peaked a little later, late-80's to mid-90's.
In conclusion, I think they are about the same for 80's material, though R.E.M. continued to come out with good work while U2 hasn't done anything great since Achtung Baby in '91.
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tough call... it seems obvious to me that r.e.m. achieved more artistically, particularly in terms of songwriting if not in terms of genre experimentation.
that said, i was a teenager in the late '80s/early '90s. and for some reason i really identified with u2. i think at that age, music that captivates you has some visceral quality... something that moves you before you become jaded and cyncial in your 20s. u2 has that something in spades. i don't know if it's the delay guitar work, the soaring choruses, or the mock-literary lyrical imagery... but for some reason when i hear them i feel hopeful, kind of like i did when i was younger. for that very intangible - even if it hasn't aged well, and makes us all cringe when we hear old (and new) U2 songs - they're better. not by much, but in my opinion they are...
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SMITHS.
And if ya don't know, now ya know.
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The Smiths, The Clash, The Pixies, The Pogues and R.E.M take joint first place in my survey of myself.
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are you people serious? oh, wait, i forgot ... it's cool and indie and hip to sneer at anyone over 25 these days. especially if they've got any sort of musical longevity or staying power or personality.
i really enjoy both U2 and REM, but if you're asking who made a bigger impact to music in the 1980s ... U2 all the way, no question.
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U and me 2
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Not a question at all. REM
Maybe because I can't stand U2
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i always hated U2. Liked them fine? I think not. The best rock band was probably either The Smiths, XTC or Talking Heads. U2 were never the best at anything, although The Edge is finally getting real respect as more than just a one sound wonder.
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It's R.E.M. for me.
The Smiths, The Cure and Pixies would come after.
They're all better than U2.
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Growing up in Athens in the 90's, I always thought REM was overrated. Only recently have I really begun to appreciate them. But I've always been huge on U2... the stuff U2 did with Brian Eno changed the way music was recorded. In my humble opinion it gets no better than the first three tracks on the Joshua Tree.
But yeah... I'd definitely put the Police in front of REM.
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The Smiths.
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The Smiths.
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: ahem : They Might Be Giants. For a bazillion reasons...but for today, because they wrote "XTC vs. Adam Ant."
Everybody sing!
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THE SMITHS PUNKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I can identify better with the Stipe's quirky nature than Bono's bombastic presence. R.E.M. has just always seemed more genuine to me. Musically it's all about the jangle.
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bono had that killer mullet early on...
then lost all points when he started wearing those stupid sunglasses all the time....
but, U2 has some great classic albums & songs...
the feeling of wonder when i first played the unforgettable fire on my record player....
stipe had those cute curls & the best mumbles in rock-n-roll history...
& lost his main stream audience when he came out of the closet...
best american band of the past 20 years....
but, the best front man?
MORRISSEY, mutha fuckas!
that voice & those lyrics...backed with that amazing music....
remember the hearing aid and the levi's?
that shit was pimp!
and nobody will ever duplicate what the smiths did for modern music back in the 80's....
much respect!
get all 3 of them together...bono stipe moz.....
and see who's the king...
or the queen...
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Well, people still listen to U2's ablums from the 80's and you still hear those songs on the radio. REM? Not so much. Sunday Bloody Sunday kills any song REM ever put out in the 80's. One group was relevant in the 80's, and that was U2.
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War was a great album start to finish. But, REMs early output outweighed U2s overall.
The correct answer, however is The Smith's.
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The Replacements
Husker Du
Minutemen
Sonic Youth
All better bands than REM or U2.
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Are we not men? We are DEVO!
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I think wickedmonkey was on the right track. I like both U2 and R.E.M., but overall I'd have to say The Cure have had the most lasting effect on me.
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First of all, I wonder what gary is thinking of when he said that U2 was "cringeworthy" in the 80s. How old is gary? How old are most of the people in this thread? Boy and October were great albums. Unforgettable Fire was great, and even Joshua Tree had its moments.
All that aside, I'm from Atlanta, and I first saw REM when I was 12 at an all ages show at the Agora Ballroom in 1981. I'd first heard Chronic Town at my friend Molly's house. Her sister was at UGA in Athens and had seen REM at a party. I knew all music had changed for me.
REM is stellar. I listened to each album 24/7 starting with the day it came out until there was a new one. I did this until about Green, seeing every concert tour they had through that time. They actually used to play 5 shows at the Fox instead of moving to the stadium sized venues (the Omni back in the day). I wouldn't give that up for the world. I saw U2 twice in the 80s, and their shows weren't good, but they weren't REM. Maybe because they were more local, more humble. I adored them.
I'm 36 now. I'm not judging retrospectively... not really. I'm judging from the perspective of someone who listened to both of these bands a LOT through the whole decade as they were evolving. Both were amazing and changed the face of music. Maybe because Bono's ego was always in the way, and maybe because REM was local... I vote REM. How could I not? They shaped me.
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I'm always surprised by the anti-R.E.M. contingent of the indie community. Murmurs through Document are essential to the indie rock sound. U2 might have been more bearable if Bono wasn't always trying so hard to steal the show. R.E.M. vs. U2 is like The Beatles vs. The Rolling Stones, or Blur vs. Oasis. Plenty of people would say the latter is better, but I have no idea why.
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it's a shame what has happened to R.E.M. I wish they could have held it together and at least have been relevant by now. But alas it was not meant to be. They really do suck now and their live shows are just pityful.
I still give it to R.E.M. though as best of the 80's.
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considering that U2 didn't do anything remotely interesting until Achtung Baby, and the Edge played the same damn rhythm guitar part for most of the '80s--R.E.M. all the way.
along with the Huskers and Mats, one of my three favorite bands of that decade.
and my vote for the next match--the Cure v. the Smiths. From what I've heard, the Smiths were actually a rocking live band.
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I agree with all the Pixies, Husker Du, Sonic Youth, Spacemen 3, Mission of Burma votes. These bands could be your life...
But as far as crossover critical / commercial success, where's the love for Elvis Costello?
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Answer: REM was better on recordings, U2 was better live.
I was always an REM guy in the '80s, mainly because of how they changed everything about the underground music scene.
They singlehandedly turned "college rock" into "alternative rock," which took it from low-watt uni-radio to big-time FM. Their southern lowkey jangle influenced more bands than you can count in the early-to-mid 80s. U2's anthemic, soaring sound influenced... well, The Alarm for a couple of albums... James...maybe a couple other bands.
Silly to argue which one was better, really, but that's what the intertrons are for, I guess!
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As per Devo and Elvis Costello, we are not men we are devo, armed forces and my aim is true all came out in the 70s, not the 80s. I'm going to have to say though, that even though Moz might be better, and smiths songs are better, Westerberg seems like a better person for the smiths/ replacements debated. Also, TMBG wrote a song called we're the replacements, not we're the smiths.
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"But as far as crossover critical / commercial success, where's the love for Elvis Costello?"
EC gets underrated because he was so utterly brilliant for six or seven records between 1977 and 1983 that most of his mid-to-late 80's output (besides King Of America, which is still highly rated) didn't measure up to his early standard, even though the records are mostly superb on their own merits.
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I'm 19. I grew up to sidewinder and losing my religion. And that was in the 90's. The only U@ song i know is the 'beautiful' one the won all the grammy's for...
And recently i have heard too many hypocritical tales regarding Bono's exploits in Africa. Eg. getting his hat sent **first class** from Ireland, for a charity gig. What's wrong with the Euro postal service?
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Echo & The Bunnymen.
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Of course, it's all a matter of opinion. But what gets me is: why does influence matter in deciding which band is better? And if U2 is more influential because they gave us bands like Coldplay, Keane, and Snow Patrol, then yes, U2, you are by far the Best Band Of The '80s. May you rot in hell for all eternity.
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Music in the 80s was well...not as good as the music in the 70s. It was the age of MTV and the producer, not the songwriter. Still, REM, U2, Sonic Youth, The Cure...all made good stuff. Why make it a contest - good music is good music and I will take it from whoever makes it.
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Echo and the Bunnymen 80-84
The Jesus and Mary Chain 85-89
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The Smiths and New Order are my staple eighties bands (and a bit of the Pet Shop Boys while we're at it).
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U2. best band ever
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Neither! Pixies!
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R.E.M.
and the comment that r.e.m. has "fallen off the radar" is a blessing for them if to stay on the radar they had to sink where U2 has
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'ON A FRIDAY' was the most influential band of the 80's. (or were they called 'Headless Chickens' back then?)
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I would pick whichever one was less ostensibly humanitarian about their pop music, less pompous, less arrogant, and less overtly left-leaning political, but these two particular bands are even, in that regard.
U2 had a far bigger impact overall. There isn't any question about it.
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I'll always prefer U2. All-around, a better band. Still, I love REM. As for the new song, I think I like it. It always takes me a while to warm up to new U2 songs.
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I'm the same age as Bono and Michael Stipe, which probably makes me too old to comment here, but of the two, now, I can still listen to REM without flinching or wincing. I can't listen to U2 at all without doing both to such an extent that people want to prescribe me anti-convulsants.
To me the Smiths in the long run were just as important as either of those two bands, maybe more so (at least more than U2). But the Smiths had the grace (good sense? good luck?) to break up before they started to suck.
I admire the persistence of people who wave the ragged flag of the Replacements, but the 'Mats always stunk. They only put out one consistently good record, which is "Tim." The rest of their output is severely marred by joke songs and alcohol damage. The Replacements put on one of the single worst shows I have ever seen in my entire life when I saw them live because they were all passing-out drunk, to a man.
I also admire the Husker Du fans. Husker Du also had only one consistently good record, "Zen Arcade," while the rest in retrospect were either a buildup to or a rehash of that high point.
I'm not even going to dignify the claims that New Order was better with any response except to say that anybody who can listen to that phony-ass goth disco garbage now and not die laughing is beyond hope.
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WTF?
Who cares?
Who met with the Pope?
Who helped to persuaded the World Bank and the IMF to cancle $40 Billion (40,000,000,000.00usd)in debt to impoverished nations?
Which band generated more cash - worldwide!
Which band gives more cash?
The answer to these questions might be the best band of the 80's.
The Replacements are tragic, husker du repressed too many issues, and new order was completely misunderstood in America up through 1987, and then they misunderstood themselves.
Is the metric the music or the money?
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WTF?
Who cares?
Who met with the Pope?
Who helped to persuaded the World Bank and the IMF to cancle $40 Billion (40,000,000,000.00usd)in debt to impoverished nations?
Which band generated more cash - worldwide!
Which band gives more cash?
The answer to these questions might be the best band of the 80's.
The Replacements are tragic, husker du repressed too many issues, and new order was completely misunderstood in America up through 1987, and then they misunderstood themselves.
Is the metric the music or the money?
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The correct battle would be THE SMITHS VS THE CURE ALL THE WAY. Both the cure and the smiths are better than U2 or rem . The Smiths are the best pop band of the 80´s definitely. And the Pixies one of the most cool bands I have heard-. I like U2 but they cannot be compared to the smiths they are at diferent levels thought.
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To that guy holding up Sunday Bloody Sunday as a great song and as evidence of U2's superiority - get real. To me it encapsulates everything I hate about U2 - the bombast, total lack of subtlety and flag waving histrionics that are U2's calling cards (the song is even more acutely embarassing to me given I'm Irish). Contrast that with a song like Green Grow the Rushes & you'll see why R.E.M. wipe the floor with them. U2 were never anything other than uninteresting self-obsessed lowest common demoninator everyman rubbish - perfectly illustrated by their ability to sell so many records in the 80's.
R.E.M., however,were definetly one of the best bands of the 80's alongside The Smiths, Pixies, Husker Du, et al, while U2 ranked alongside talentless gimps such as Simple Minds.
U2 how long must you sing that song? Indeed.
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I'm a fan of them both, but U2 trumps REM. They were more on equal terms in the early 90's, when Automatic For the People gave Achtung Baby a run for its money. I will agree, though, that Murmur was a better debut than Boy. War and Document are on equal terms. Life's Rich Pageant and The Unforgettable Fire both have their share of hits and misses. The Joshau Tree is better than any of REM's 80s albums (although October is weaker than any of REM's albums). Hell, maybe it's closer than I thought. Oh, and The Smiths are just as great, if not better, than REM.
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