This site is now a joke - how can anyone read it now after seeing someone like Tom call anyone who believes Beck is a real musician a "truther"? You can kiss Beyonce's butt all you want but dissing Beck as an actual musician is absolutely classless (besides being baseless). I guess The Beatles aren't musicians then either 'cuz they used samples too (like Beck, ones they created!).
So Michael, you should correct that part of the review where you say Corgan recorded all the guitar and bass parts for the first three albums and put the correct number "two" there instead.
Just like The Cure is, was and always will be about Robert Smith and his music, the Smashing Pumpkins is and always was about Billy Corgan and his music. It's as simple as that.
The Pumpkins recorded as a true band for one album only: Mellon Collie. (Remember when MTV visited them in the studio during the making of it when they were jamming on cuts like "Tribute to Johnny"? I sure do.) Ex.: Corgan even recalls in the (amazing) MCIS reissue some of the recording process: the eventual magic they captured on "Where Boys Fear To Tread" recording it live as a band... So it's a common refrain to say Corgan recorded all the guitars and bass for the first two SP albums, but it isn't accurate to say the first THREE.
Also, I can't believe you think "Monuments" is "skippable." I've been cranking up that heavy sludge rocker the last two weeks every time it comes on in my stream of the new album - I did my own review of it November 25. The only track I didn't really like too much was "Anaise!" It starts out promising but I just didn't get into it as it played on; "Being Beige" I liked but didn't love at first but like yourself, now dig more as an album track rather than a single. The only other downpoints were in some of the bland/generic lyrics - from a guy currently writing a 500,000-word spiritual memoir - so that was surprising.
Lastly, I'll never understand people's distaste for Zeitgeist. "Antihero," from MTAE would fit right on it next to "Bring The Light" (one of my fav Zeitgeist tracks). It's like people gave up on the record because the rest of it didn't sound like the first (Queen-ish Siamese Dream-sounding) single, "Tarantula." There really are only a few clunkers on Zeitgeist and Machina I. And for that matter, Adore's only problem was that it was too long - "Annie Dog" would've made a cool b-side rather than a so-so album track, and "Let Me Give The World To You" would've been terrific in its place on the album, IMO.
If you're going with the popularity thing (and I agree that will probably be the case as usual) then I don't see how Kraftwerk gets in. Stevie Ray Vaughan will definitely get in - now that most blues legends that pioneered the form have gotten in (ex. Freddie King in 2012, Albert King in 2013, etc.).
Remember that Billy Corgan gave away the Pumpkins' Machina II album online in 2000 - he was probably the first mainstream artist to do such a thing but Machina I didn't sell well and the band was breaking up by then so it didn't get a lot of attention. Next year we will remember for sure once Machina I is reissued - with Machina II along with sure to be other unreleased goodies.
Let me get this straight: Two groups people have long forgotten about get nominated - Spinners and Marvelettes - but Deep Purple gets snubbed again? And Green Day is nominated now even though they weren't relevant on a national level until 1994? Sorry but Green Day shouldn't get in just yet - same with those two other groups.
Also Tom, the fact that Lou Reed died probably will help him get into the Hall? It's the ONLY reason he's been nominated now. He's been eligible since 1972. This is so typical of the Hall - only pay attention to certain culturally iconic artists/band's legacy when someone dies. And even then, that theory doesn't always work - Pantera got snubbed, even though Dimebag Darrell's been dead 10 years now.
All that negativity commentary aside, it's good to see Kraftwerk, NIN, The Smiths, Joan Jett, Paul Butterfield (who is in the Blues Hall of Fame), NWA and SRV on this list. Needless to say, they all should've been in by now. I'm not really a fan of disco but Chic deserves to finally get in the Hall too because their hits have had a lot of staying power, and they've also been a significant influence on rock (Queen, Johnny Marr), and early hip-hop ("Rapper's Delight," especially).
Snubbed again (besides) Deep Purple and Pantera: Cheap Trick, Dick Dale, Megadeth, Anthrax, The Cure, Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Slayer and Judas Priest.
For what it's worth, I don't think it's a coincidence that Oasis's debut Definitely Maybe came out on the same date - 28 years apart - as The Beatles' final "official concert" at Candlestick Park - which Consequence of Sound wrote about Friday, complete with audio of a cassette copy of said legendary concert. Just some food for thought.
Well, thanks to a Rolling Stone write-up of last night's pretty darn good performances by Jack and company, I can answer my own question (sort of): that violinist is Lillie Mae Rische, former lead singer of some country group of siblings known as Jypsi.
Lookin' forward to the tour now.
Actually, the title track was performed for TV; "Just One Drink" was the bonus performance. Also, anybody know who is in Jack White's band on these performances, especially his violinist? I had my eyes on her more than Jack. :)
I will always remember the period of time Purple came out, as it coincided with my graduation from 8th grade (and the notorious chase for OJ Simpson). I was more excited about getting this awesome brand new album on cassette than any graduation present. :)
I will always maintain that as much as Weiland sounds like Vedder on Core, the only song that STP wrote in that era (1992-1994) that truly sorta imitated Pearl Jam was "Big Empty," due to some of its well-chosen guitar chord structures, ones that sound like a slower-paced "Porch." It's still awesome for a slow song and Purple still is my (and am sure countless others') fav STP record.
Saying "Everlasting Gaze" and "Stand Inside Your Love" are "lesser rewrites" of anything, let alone "Zero" and "Tonight, Tonight" is way off. And as far as Oceania goes, I love it as a whole album experience. It's decent at worst, a gem of an album at best. (There's really no need to go there but if you wanted to take a more accurate jab regarding "rewrites" though, "Age of Innocence" doesn't sound much like "Tonight, Tonight" but it pretty much recycles its main verse (drum) beats, while "The Chimera" has a great main riff, but it is a lot like the mid-section of "Frail & Bedazzled." Seriously though, who cares? They're all solid songs, on their own merits.)
As much as I dig this new track, I still have to go with their cover of Depeche Mode's "Enjoy The Silence" as my fav Failure recording. These guys were friggin' brilliant. And their next album will probably be too. Great to see them back!
Did you skip over Billy's first paragraph? It was Jeff who encouraged Billy to bring T Lee into the band for the album. My guess is that Byrne will drum on the other new album (when he's not with his other band, Bearcubbing).
First of all, what a hypocrite this author is regarding who writes "nonsense" lyrics - he tries unconvincingly to excuse Liam's nonsense rhymes on "Supersonic" while criticizing Cobain's rhymes on "Smells Like Teen Spirit." I get that this author is biased towards Oasis but I did not expect this Nirvana-trashing stuff. Gimme a break with this crap implication that Oasis lyrics had more/deeper meaning than Nirvana lyrics. Oasis lyrics were optimistic. Nirvana's not so much (and Cobain was rather autobiographical with his lyrics). Both were hugely influential so there's no need for this kind of unfair trashing to be part of this Oasis story.
But the other thing that irks me is Noel Gallagher not having a clue what he's talking about in saying Cobain "had everything but was miserable about it," which is so absurdly false. Someone needs to get Gallagher a copy of the definitive Kurt Cobain biography Heavier Than Heaven - then he'll realize how wrong he was. Those two had a lot more in common regarding rough childhoods than Gallagher apparently realizes. And I'd argue that Cobain's upbringing and road to stardom was tougher than Gallagher's.
By that logic, then "About A Girl" shouldn't be on here either - even Krist thought it was a Smithereens song when he first heard it. "Smells Like Teen Spirit" may rip off "Debaser" but to say Nirvana "recorded" 10 better songs? And "Serve The Servants" is one of them? I don't think so. "Aneurysm" belongs up there, or even "Dive" for that matter. (The rest on the list are good choices, I'll give you that.)
I don't know how anyone missed this but Korn's self-titled debut album had nothing to do with starting rap metal "in earnest" or at any point. It's the nu metal trend that they started, at least commercially, as Coal Chamber (live) and a few other bands were doing guitar solo-less super-downtuned heavy nu metal stuff around that time too. (And for the record, I don't think any one band can claim they started a rap metal trend, but Biohazard gets my vote for getting the first mainstream exposure, followed by RATM and Downset.)
There may be Pavement songs with vocal harmonies that I've forgotten about that one isn't it, sorry - it's just Malkmus singing falsetto-style there (in singular notes).
I'm with you for the most part on this. Guyville is truly incredible, especially for a debut album. But I don't really agree with your comparison of Phair's vocals with Gordon or Malkmus. She may sing sometimes like she just woke up, but unlike those two, she sings in tune/on key (on purpose); those two often sing out of tune (Gordon doing the more punk thing) on purpose. (And it works for everybody.) Plus, there are vocal harmonies on Guyville (ex. "Never Said") you'd never find on Sonic Youth or Pavement records. That said, this and Whip Smart are my go-to Phair CDs (or cassette tapes - yes, I bought the latter on tape and still have it but should probably upgrade to vinyl for that, Guyville or both when I can afford to.).
I know that the Dropkicks have skinheads among their fans - they've even done shows with skinhead bands during their 17 or so years together. But they've never themselves become skinheads (glad you acknowledged that), and though I haven't read that Casey interview you speak of, I have read one Al Barr did, so really, let's be clear on what type of "skinhead" Casey is talking about in songs or interviews. All skinheads are anti-authoritarian, but the ones this band talks about are the (sometimes violent) punk/working class type, NOT the racist, neo-Nazi type. That's likely what Casey means about skinheads being "misunderstood." I got the impression from your article that you were basically saying that Casey beat up in a sense, one of his own (when you said he might be a skinhead too), and of course, you would agree now that would be wrong to say. Besides, I don't think the likes of Bruce Springsteen would associate himself with a band of skinheads, even if they were the (somewhat) more tame type.
By the way, I forgot that song "Skinhead on the MBTA" is really more sympathetic to the non-racist type of skinheads I mentioned and is based on the Kingston Trio's "Charlie on the MTA," so I correct myself on that front.
Ken "might not" claim "skinhead" status? Tom, you do a lot of good posts here but obviously you don't know that much about the Dropkicks. NONE of them are skinheads and in fact, if you knew their discography, would know one of their classics is (anti-skinhead tune) "Skinhead on the MBTA." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qPm9JFM484
Also, it's a small thing but Ken Casey is co-lead singer, along with Al Barr.
Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt, sold the t-shirt. However, it's good to see that Iggy's keepin' the dream alive four years after Ron Asheton's untimely death.
Welcome Liz! Good to see Massachusetts represented here as well. (I haven't been to Allston lately but I saw a good show or two there at a "house" a few years ago; it included good to great local bands like The Trashkillers and others). I hope you can work in some great, rising local MA bands into your weekend slot too.
If that's the case (that you aren't trying to disparage the non-Corgan Pumpkins), next time don't call them "scrubs" and do a better job making clear you aren't questioning the merits of them being in the band (that you're just pointing out public perception issues). By the way, in that list, you forgot (the late) Mark Tulin (ex-Electric Prunes) as an SP bass player and somewhat significant Corgan collaborator in 2009-2010 during the early Teargarden sessions - he even played live with them on RSD in April 2010, and his very death influenced the making of Oceania, as Corgan said recently.
And I disagree with you on how people looked at Zwan. That was a great lineup of alternative and indie stars, Chavez's Matt Sweeney, Paz Lenchantin of A Perfect Circle and David Pajo (from a million projects, most notably the influential Slint) joining Billy and Jimmy (one of the best drummers of our generation).
Tell me something, Michael. Why is it that it's okay for Robert Smith to have musicians in The Cure come and go and it not be an issue, but somehow when Corgan does it, it's a bad thing and makes the Pumpkins, less credible as the Pumpkins somehow? Or when Dave Grohl does everything in the studio for the Foo Fighters early on, why didn't people question the contributions of the rest of the band (like Pat Smear) or see them as being a bunch of props or hanger-ons in a band featuring the ex-Nirvana drummer?
I get it. Billy is a jerk. But somewhere along the way he got this wrong reputation of being a control freak (and not letting other people contribute much). The truth is, James and D'Arcy sucked at recording (at least for the first two SP records), and so Butch Vig looked at Billy, and the budget and said he might as well do all the guitars and bass parts himself. So that's not his fault.. MCIS was truly the only real full band effort.
At some point, people need to get a clue that SP is and always has been about Corgan (just like The Shins have always been about James Mercer, The Who's always been about Daltrey and Townshend, etc.) and stop saying that SP isn't the same without James and D'Arcy (and now Jimmy). I miss Chamberlin dearly but this current lineup is the best and most talented they've ever had - Corgan's even stated that Jeff is a technically better guitar player than he is, which you could never say about Iha or Sweeney.
By the way, Nicole (ex-Veruca Salt), was a veteran Billy found in CA after one of her bands opened for SP at a tribute show a few years ago. The only reason she (and Mark before her) even became Pumpkins is because Ginger became a mother and had that as a priority (which you can totally understand). And Mike was just a fantastic find after a bunch of auditions (especially for his young age). The kid is also a good singer and keyboardist too, so no, looks had nothing to do with his or any other band member's hiring. Auditions and connections with other musicians in Los Angeles (where Corgan spent a lot of time after helping out Courtney Love - who Billy took Melissa away from 12 years ago while Courtney was doing nothing musically).
I could go on, but one thing is clear: the music media can do something about public perception of the Pumpkins with regard to band members' contributions. All I can say is for people writing about them and the making of past works and current ones like Oceania is to do your homework. Study the interviews (or if you're like me, interview Corgan himself like I did late last year), which there are a ton of nowadays. Even go on Nicole's Facebook page and you'll see a lot of entries about her time spent recording Pumpkins songs over the past year or two. Corgan and company talk openly about the recording process more than ever - two years ago there was even a 7-hour webcast of the band members individually recording parts to future SP songs like "Lonely Is The Name" - and will continue to I'm sure. You just have to pay more attention to it.
Sorry to be so hard on you Michael but dammit, Corgan and his music (and his current bandmates) deserve more accuracy and respect here at Stereogum than you've been giving it recently and over the years. And I'm a longtime reader (at least 8 years running.)
Speaking of respect, I respectfully disagree on Oceania being the best album since MCIS. It is the best since Adore.
People like Michael Nelson have no business writing about Smashing Pumpkins. None. He is a typical clueless snob who shits on Corgan (like just about everyone else at Stereogum whenever they get a chance) and calls the other well qualified band members "scrubs." What an asshole. And to say at least two of those "scrubs" probably never saw a recording studio while Teargarden was being recorded is also 100% false. This foursome has been more dedicated and individually talented at recording with Billy than anyone who was in the band beforehand (say for Jimmy Chamberlin). Just another ignoramus who doesn't get that and never understood SP's recording history - that James and D'Arcy sucked at recording their parts, so Butch Vig had Corgan do them himself on those first 2 SP CDs.
Leave it to non-fans like Nelson and this Rob Mitchum idiot he mentions, to wrongly say the Pumpkins ever left their "softer" side behind, from Machina/Machina II and on through Zeitgeist. What a stupid, ignorant assessment of post-'90s SP. Some of Corgan's most beautiful and coolest "soft" songs were on those records. If these guys didn't like post-'90s Pumpkins, fine. But just because SP didn't do a, "1979 part 2," or a generic follow-up to "Tonight, Tonight" doesn't mean they didn't have any great non-loud songs from that era.
Ever hear "Try, Try, Try" (one of the band's best ever songs), or "That's The Way (My Love Is)"? Or how about "Age of Innocence," "With Every Light," (from Machina I) and "If There Is A God" and "Let Me Give The World To You" (the latter two from Machina II)?
Get a clue, Stereogum. And stop starting every post with some cheap, irrelevant reference or link to some statements Corgan made that you didn't like. I don't agree or care what Corgan thinks of this or that, just that he makes good quality music. And whether Stereogum has been paying close attention or not, he's been doing it for over 20 years now.
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