this was a really good write up! easy to be fussy about a record you love but I enjoyed this a lot. thanks zach.
the bite of "i heard your record / it's alright" has always amused me.
maron is one of my favorite interviewers and one of the only podcasts i'll listen to. gonna DL this one for my next long drive. I can see him and kurt really vibin.
someone was stalked & harassed & all of the dudes on this thread can shut the fuck up with their snide comments, it's actually fucking traumatizing and scary you dipshits
Also re: Sophie I think she reneged on that particular comment which was kinda ignorant but borne more of that phenom where like every other dude act was named girls/girlband/whatever for a hot sec, she's def been paying lip service to Sophie following the recent release anyway
Def not blood pop. I always assumed FWB was abt someone from her Montreal days trying to ride her coattails. A lot of Art angels seems to be alluding to old acquaintances popping out of the woodwork once you've got success n there don't seem to be a ton of people from that scene she still associates with:/
You know, bloc, I read stereogum now and again and have vaguely wondered what it would be like to dedicate as much of my life as you have to writing comments on some music blog, but this is the first thread that's really affirmed my suspicion that you're an absolute a-hole
lol sorry to invade your safe space by asking u to think critically about power relations and listen to marginalized folx about their specific traumas
ps nothing in this thread is clever or funny
Point by point:
Yes, it is selfish of you to be invested in believing Evan Stephan Hall is just being overblown because you are disappointed you're not going to get to go to their show. I honestly don't care that you don't get to live the lukewarm diy star lifestyle and not show up to work. Me either.
For my part, I know they have a lot of diehard teen fans and were I still teen girl back in nj, I would feel uncomfortable going to their show because of what he said here IRT using his audience. I would be uncomfortable with my little sister going.
I feel like we're agreeing that this statement was bizarre and inappropriate and should not have taken so many words.
Sexual grossness, as you put it, is a form of violence. Not in a black eye way, but being taken advantage of, especially by someone you look up to, can be traumatic. Cat calling is another example. No, not jailable offenses, but I'm not interested in jail. I'm interested in people being decent to each other. Is this particular instance worth calling off a tour? Idk, and this statement doesn't help, but I assume it has to feel critical to do so because there are a ton of logistics and inconveniencing lots of people (including co-workers like bandmates, touring partners, venues, management, etc) involved in that. Without any evidence or anywhere near enough details to personally judge the situation, you have to assume that Hall is being accurate when he says the emotional harm he caused and his dynamics on tour have been shitty enough that he feels like touring right now is irresponsible.
Not sure I said every man, and I didn't say the power dynamic is an impossible to navigate slippery slope. I said that it is something that deserves to be thought about critically and made a best faith effort to applaud him for taking a stab at it, even if it's replete with a distilled version of Louis CK's "they admired me" rhetoric and I'm still sus.
From what you've said, it seems like you believe rapists are monsters and there's a black and white distinction between them and the rest of us. It's not binary and again I'm not using jail as my standard. If you think I'm giving rapists too much credit, well, buddy, the news is that a ton of the sexual violence women are subjected to is at the hands of people they regard as friends, people with other friends who are loved and do good stuff sometimes.
I also have to say – if jail doesn’t make you not a rapist anymore, which I’m pretty sure it doesn’t, we have to ask what the rehabilitative process is. And that’s engagement with ideas of consent, entitlement, gender, and so forth.
yeah, well, I told you to call me out on that, but are you honestly gonna tell me you think most of the people commenting on the pinegrove article aren't mostly white and male?
A question for you: Why are you defaulting to excusing a him, rather than believing him (and her?)? The basic math there is: two involved parties vs. one unrelated one.
Breathtaking that beyond disbelieving her, the fanboys have decided to disbelieve HIM.
I agree that a lot of this should have been addressed personally to the wronged party... and that it was inappropriate for him to half-try to give ANY context beyond a simple "I was involved in an intense relationship where I overstepped some boundaries." Nothing beyond that contributes to our understanding of his statement (and actually obfuscates), nor is it - get this - our business! Relationships are incredibly complex and there's no way 800 words or whatever can capture what went on, besides which, who knows how many details the victim actually wants out there? Yall suddenly becoming experts on the dynamics of pinegrove guy's secret relationship in time to tell him he's overreacting and to bang it if he wants is real suspect to me.
At the very least (and I'm not in the camp that a performer has to be an abstinent tour monk) you have to admit that treating his audience like a meatmarket is a creepy and unhealthy thing to do.
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