In complete agreement with you on all of this. Thanks for such a thoughtful response.
In my defense, I think what is troubling and how I think this conflates with the cancel culture issue is the desired result. I'm not trying to defend Mark or really most celebrities who are cancelled for things like sexual misconduct. I just highly doubt that the goal with this news is to actually press charges against him criminally. That really hasn't been the goal for many accused in the wake of #MeToo since Cosby/Weinstein. So if that isn't the goal then what is? Seems like just cancelling him.
Whether that is right or wrong, isn't my argument.
My argument is that to operate and participate within a society where cancelling people is both an end goal and a form of societal punishment while also denying the existence of said culture makes no sense. It's just untrue and wrong.
It seems this guy met that standard since even the headline only says Sexual Misconduct, let alone Sexual Assault or Rape. If they could legitimately say he was accused of Rape, they’d put it in the headline for clicks. (Sorry to be cynical)
Not saying your point isn’t extremely valid but I think jumping to such an extreme is just as unhelpful as pointing out rap lyrics in response to something like this.
Almost as stupid as conflating the definition of sexual assault and sexual misconduct so you can proceed with the exact performative public shaming you’re referring to.
Oh and one last reminder. This doesn’t mean that people getting cancelled isn’t born sometimes valid and necessary.
If you’re an American though, have fun ensuring every artist you support meets a moral purity standard while you proudly vote an accused rapist into office.
This guy has always sucked btw. As a dude, objectively and as a musician, subjectively. We all knew this and know this. To try an make a big article of it for clicks after saying people don’t actual get cancelled is both hilarious hypocritical and proof that there is a cancellation culture that exists . If it didn’t, this article wouldn’t cause the clicks you want and generate revenue.
Please read the book "So You've Been Publicly Shamed" by Mark Ronson where there are a bunch of accounts of normal, everyday people whose lives were completely ruined because they were cancelled online.
Instead of writing a book on here about how it doesn't exist.
We literally have all commented on articles about people on Twitter trying to cancel each other throughout the peak of BLM earlier this year for not being woke enough and yet people on here will tell you "cancel culture" doesn't exist. It absolutely exists.
When I tried to tease out a better argument, all I got was "then why do you find what Nick Cave said interesting?" (um why are there hundreds of comments on this article. because it was and because we all know this thing exists)
The other popular response here is "give me examples of cancel culture working 100%"
which focuses more on the effect than the term itself. Regardless of the varying degrees people have gotten cancelled, "being cancelled" is still a thing.
If we all know the definition to a phrase, then it is a thing. It exists.
For the dumbest woke people to think they can debate the existence of something by going "well WHO has been cancelled?" and when we all bring up a list of people they go "well they're still..." or "well they weren't...." which is basically all of them saying "well they're still alive" or "well they haven't been put in prison/exiled" LOL. Basically their proof that cancel culture doesn't exist is that the punishments aren't strong enough yet. Very scary stuff if you ask me!
You're right. It isn't. It is limited to class. I focused on the white thing because it's ironic how much cancel culture has bene perverted into woke purity tests for wealthy whites who know nothing about racism.
That being said, cancelling problematic people is strictly for upper-middle class to wealthy people in this country regardless of color. No one who hasn't bene to college has ever tried to cancel anyone.
Sexuality is on a spectrum.
Is it unfathomable that cancel culture can be too?
Amazing how progressives can be like "there are 99+ genders" but when we start putting a lens on something like cancelling people then there needs to be ONE singular clear definition. lmao foh.
Saying I'm screaming my lungs out and trying to make me sound hysterical on here when I'm just discussing stuff on here rationally is quite literally the definition of gaslighting so?
Except the thing is, he was still able to do shows and releasee a special but plenty of people still wanted to shut it down. That is the "culture" that is being discussed here. Not sure how anyone can deny it is a thing.
Also no one here is talking about artists being cancelled for their art. That is censorship. We're talking about artists who are cancelled for their shitty behavior. That is cancel culture.
which would be a much better thing for our society if we decided to maybe hold people in actual positions of power/authority accountable first maybe?
I wish this were the case and I think your point is really valid to an extent. But you argument is kind of delving into a whole like “well it’s a free market!” thing. Which would be fair but there are definitely examples of people who were cancelled but had fans that continued to support them leading to the same mobs to continuously try to re-cancel/censor/shut them down.
Louis CK is a popular example of this. Not that I’m a big fan of his obviously but any time that dude had a show or anything after, there was attempts to shut it down or protest it. So you’re whole kind of “if people choose to support it than they’re not cancelled!” is baseless.
I’m making two separate points (in case the two separate replies to separate comments wasn’t enough of a clue). But very cute to try to combine them in an attempt to invalidate a point you don’t like!
Who the actual fuck reads every minor article on Billboard.
Who the actual fuck is going to listen to that assholes new solo album?
Literally no one. Chris Brown and MJ remain inescapable.
Oh, for sure. Not trying to say otherwise!
But the accusations were way less severe than the other two examples and they are also just objectively less famous. Yet their blowback was massive. They absolutely deserved to be cancelled but let's not distort the facts to prop up the narrative we want. PWR BTTM were cancelled. They were the definition of it. They also deserved it. But cancelling people is still real and if you think one of the members getting an article in Billboard after the fact means it doesn't, you are insane.
That guy will never be anything again and MJ is hitting #1 from the grave.
Hilarious how this is going to get downvoted and then comments below me are going to continue pondering why Michael Jackson and Chris Brown haven't been cancelled for some of the MOST heinous things/accusations but bands like PWR BTTM (who were/are basically unknown) have. The hoops you all jump through, I swear...
When white people make digs on how problematic and shitty white males are, it's instant proof of how little they interact with anyone who isn't middle to upper class whites.
White men aren't the only people who are wildly problematic. Black people just don't try to destroy each other lives if another one says something unwoke because they have actual problems in this country.
"Ill defined"
lmao you ALL know exactly what he's talking about. we all do. clearly you are the type of person to participate in the things he's talking about but not sure why I'd expect anyone online to be accountable/self-critical in any way.
the first thing people do when you call them out on their actions is question and attempt to invalidate the other persons definition of the term.
JUST like when you call someone racist (when they're being racist) and they immediately try to invalidate your definition of racism. JUST like Trumps continuous war on facts.
The cancellers and the cancelled are both operating on the same sociopathic and borderline gaslighting argumentative logic.
Just because we’re not praising two women as intellectuals for just ripping off Lil Kim dirty as fuck raps 20 years after the fact, doesn’t make us conservatives.
Your take was dumb and that’s why it was downvoted.
That’s all I’m saying. Hundreds of thousands of people are dying in a pandemic and guilty white people are trying to prove they’re “down” online by convincing people that a song called Wet Ass Pussy is actually intelligent. I love the Internet.
EXACTLY THOUGH! Rolling Stones music is stupid with stupid lyrics! It is fun but stupid! Rip This Joint rules but it isn’t profound. It’s about getting fucking high!
NOW imagine the entire comment section of a Rolling Stones article on here is now people parroting all of the dumbest people on Twitter and trying to jump through hoops to argue that Rolling Stones songs are actually really woke and intelligent. Loving Cup is actually really smart and empowering man (oh wait...loving cup is just about a WAP)
And btw, it’s a fun song! I’m not saying there shouldn’t be music like this. There will always be a place for dumb, fun music. We all need just a bop to let loose to during the summer sometimes! But let’s not pretend this song is saying something substantial and is actually intelligent, smart, woke, etc.
No one said those songs don't exist but we trash them and rightfully so! I don't think the contextual difference you're referring to, which is valid, makes the song any less stupid. It is still just people singing about their genitals and regardless of gender, it's just dumb. Whatever narrative they'll sell it with on Twitter isn't an explanation for the art but a justification for how hollow and dumb it is. Not to mention if you think the millions of people consuming this song are viewing it through a feminist lens, I promise you they are not. People aren't jamming to this song about wet snatch like "omg what a reclamation of the male gaze!"
come on.
I definitely think there is something to be said about the fact that "My Neck, My Back" has been an infamous joke song to people for years and now a song just as mindlessly dumb and dirty is now being propositioned as "art that says something and is unironically great".
What are we trying to convince ourselves here? Imagine if the Chainsmokers dropped a single all about how hard their dicks were? How would the Internet react to THAT? Downvote me all you want, everything involved here is the definition of dumb.
Ahh so glad you went with LC! Top 5 of all time for me.
If you decide to delve more into Clash...First 2 records are more of that punky feel you were expecting but same level of great!!
After that... dive into Sandinista! (It’s a WHOLE thing. Highly recommend)
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