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My favorite country artist covering my favorite Metallica song? Yas queen!

"I know I am a millionaire with access to actual experts I could talk to if I wanted to consider the viewpoints of those criticizing me, but I'm pretty smart, so my brain and this book with a title so obviously propaganda it should be in the Wikipedia article for 'propaganda' is enough for me to decide I'm not wrong, and all the people telling me I am are the real problem."

This dude completely does not understand, or more likely does and is pretending not to, that there's a difference between "criticizing the far left" and "using alt-right propaganda to criticize the far left."

"Why would anyone call me a fascist for using fascist propaganda to attack anti-fascists?"

I feel like Mark Hoppus dying would hit me the way it did when Joe Strummer went, and I'm not ashamed to say that.

Do these songs ever go on Spotify? Because GOT. DAMN.

"Quick! We need a promotional image for our movie! Get someone who is pretty good at Photoshop, but has no training in layout, typography or managing a heirarchy!" Also, this whole idea is so awful I'd expect my Dad to recommend it to me if I were still talking to him.

I can't even begin to fathom the gall it takes to compare this to segregation in PRIVATE, let alone loudly and with a sign in public.

Gish gallop (you know, the one I provided a link to above?) Tone policing Anecdotal Fallacy Causal Fallacy Appeal to Pity Appeal to tradition Strawman Personal incredulity Moving the goalposts Ambiguity fallacy Composition/division Cherry picking Middle ground fallacy Is that enough?

I didn't start out calling anyone those things. You don't get to be condescending, smug, irrational, dismissive and passive-aggressive and then play the victim when people get mad. I fucking hate passive aggression. Say what you mean, listen, be willing to review new evidence and concede that you may be wrong (or just don't have all the facts) and maybe arguments will remain debates.

Sarcasm might make you feel better, but it's not a counterargument. I never said Grimes doesn't BELIEVE she's a leftist. I said she's not one. My parents BELIEVE they're not racist. That doesn't make it true, as they march to the polls to vote for Trump. Dismissing anyone who disagrees with you and refuses to back down as virtue-signalling is, again, a coward's way to avoid listening. You have never once actually engaged with what I am actually saying. Try to imagine that some of us care deeply about this stuff and are absolutely SICK of having it devalued by an unending string of logical fallacies, instead of making presumptions based on nothing that we must be doing it for...imaginary internet cred from people who don't even know who we really are? The fact that you think it's performative says a lot more about you than it does me.

You showed your ass on crypto. Nobody in the crypto community thinks of Musk as a figurehead. I don't think you even know what your point is anymore. You just started off being a contrarian bootlicking dick, got upset when you were called on it instead of praised as egalitarian and now think you can gish gallop your way into being right by exhausting me. Well, you're right about that. I'm done.

"may i show you this little button called the “downvote”" is what someone who wants to shit their uninformed opinion into the world and then cry victim when anyone takes them to task thinks is a counterpoint.

I just want you to pause, reread what you just wrote, and understand that you are using capitalism to defend capitalism and then claiming that it is leftist because it is coincidentally environmentalist.

Them: Vociferously defend wealth hoarding with logical fallacies Me: Gets upset about it You: Whoah, dude, chill out! You: Suspiciously unperturbed about the logic-free bootlicking passive-aggression I'm responding to

It's not a deep cut. It's fucking Logic 101. I just assumed, based on your behavior, that posting a link was the only way to get you to possibly care what I was referring to. But engaging in more logical fallacies to defend another doesn't make you look as smart as you clearly think it does. Also also, I didn't discount the things you said. I've, against my own better judgment, pretended your bad faith was good and tried to debate with you. As such, you have begun to use more and more logical fallacies to avoid an actual conversation where you might have to consider that you're wrong. People don't have to respect what you're saying when you're using logical fallacies, and pointing one out is not in bad faith. Jesus Christ, do you even hear yourself?

It's called "Not everyone uses it the way you do, and the way you use it exists so they can advertise as being free while still being megacapitalist."

I'm reading the text of the reply where you got upset about downvotes and began to take it seriously.

Thanks, kamala-biden-is-a-hand-puppet!

Do you?

You literally just defined tone policing! If I'm being a dick, you are free to think I'm a dick. But it is fallacious to refuse to consider my point because of it. Now, there's something to be said about ME wanting to watch my tone so people like you who act in bad faith won't use my tone to dismiss my point. But that's not what you're doing. And if my tone was all sunshine and flowers, you'd just find some other disingenuous way to miss the point, so why bother? Also, being aggressive or upset does not equate to being an asshole. You know what you're doing. You're intentionally playing dumb and engaging in numerous logical fallacies, and then, when anyone you're arguing with gets upset, you use that to shame them, as if that makes the point you're attempting to defend true. If your only counterargument is "B-but, you're being MEAN", then you're basically showing your ass. Also, like thiscity just said, the idea of a neutral argument is insane, and only ever used by people who approach arguments in bad faith to dismiss anyone they're upsetting with their ignorance so they never have to listen.

Maybe understand how a thing works before you use it as the lynchpin of your argument. It is so exhausting having to explain the basics of all this shit to you, lest I give up in exasperation and you act like that means you're right. What you're doing is called a "gish gallop" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop#:~:text=The%20Gish%20gallop%20is%20a,or%20strength%20of%20those%20arguments I'd be willing to consider you might be right if you could make any point without numerous logical fallacies.

Neither is Paypal, genius.

Also, the sanctimony of "We need to remember how to listen to each other" from someone who clearly hasn't actually listened to anything I've said is something else.

You didn't call out a single one of my arguments, and you calling them "crummy" does not make it so. You backpedaled and patronized me, refusing to engage or consider them. Performative niceness does not make you a better person, regardless of how smug it lets you feel. Nothing you said hurt my feelings. That's something you're telling yourself to minimize what I said so you don't have to consider it. You spoke in public and said reckless, untrue things. You still are. People are allowed to be mad at you for that, and it's in bad faith to act like their anger at your ignorance is all you need to dismiss their argument. It's "okay to disagree" when the topic at hand here is a tv show or an album. When it is about very real issues that destroy lives, it's really not. Thinking it is okay to disagree there is an attitude only those who aren't under a bootheel have. And bud, nobody WANTS to yell. You're being such an asshole it pushes people beyond their limits. And someone getting mad at you isn't bullying. Intentionally pushing people's buttons until they get upset and then shaming them for the reaction you intentionally instigated, though? Yeeeeeaaaah....

1) Generational wealth is one of the largest contributors to wealth disparity. It is why ideas like reparations are seen as necessary to address economic inequality. There are untold numbers of people destitute or dead because of the money the Musk family stole from them. It is not "his" money and never was. 2)You don't know enough about crypto to have viable input. Stop listening to Musk's self-aggrandizing propaganda. I am only in the space because I got hired at a blockchain nonprofit and won't care much when I move on, but I know enough that my eyes almost rolled out of my head at your claim. Educate yourself before you talk more. 3) If you want people to take you seriously, don't resort to that old "what about free speech" trope. I wasn't advocating that Musk be imprisoned for anything he said. I was CRITICIZING his speech, which is MY GODDAMNED FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Management working to prevent labor from organizing is anti-union, and therefore anti-leftist. 4) Hanging a lampshade on it doesn't mean you're not just arguing for trickle-down economics. You clearly do not understand just how much a billion dollars is if this is all you think he can do, or if you think it is at ALL comparable to you spending a grand. Someone with, say, Drake's wealth is closer to the poverty line than he is Musk. 5)Once again, bud, words have meanings. If you vote against gay rights, you're not an ally. If you are a card-carrying member of a hate group, you're not anti-racist. Someone can believe in Christ and work at an abortion clinic because the pro-life stance is not inherently Biblical, just a specific theological interpretation. BUT, you can't be an atheist and a Christian, which is a much more direct comparison to a billionaire claiming to be a leftist. Leftist ideology intrinsically holds that that kind of wealth is unethical. Short of giving it away, it doesn't matter what beliefs one holds. I think a lot of this comes from you equating liberalism and leftism. Environmentalism and social liberalism are not the same as leftism, which is an ideology that fundamentally works against wealth on the scale of Musk's and management. If Musk has ever even appeared to be on the side of the proletariat, it is merely performative.

You might not remember this, but credit unions and checks exist.

You're doing a lot of bad faith projection and forcing of narratives. Only uneducated Tumblr/Twitter types, often teenagers, think European countries are entirely socialist, and any leftist worth their salt knows they're not communist. But y'all have a lot more socialism mixed in with your capitalism than we do, and we use it as examples against the conservatives and centrists who are the ones largely equating anything "to the left of Canada" with the likes of the USSR or the CCP. Now, you are correct that it is almost certainly what Grimes is doing, but my comment was in response to what you addressed to "whoever's downvoting here". You're cherry-picking what you focus on to argue with people largely on your side instead of the capitalists and fascists we are all against. Also, ironically, you're arriving there because of similar wide swath misconceptions about American culture you are accusing us of making.

Being a disingenuous reactionary until people get mad at you, and then using the emotional reaction you egged on to justify not listening may make you feel like a big man, but it's what insecure cowards do to build up the lie that they're smarter than everyone else. If tone policing is all you got to justify your self-satisfied ignorance, you might want to spend more time listening and less time talking.

Paypal is one of the largest financial institutions in the world, and it makes the entirety of its money gouging its users. It buys up anything that threatens its dominance over the market. It is part and parcel with modern capitalism. Those who created it knew this. It was not created to give power back to labor. It was created to capitalize off of them because there was an emerging market for the services it would provide. It's not leftist because it helps the people it exploits more than traditional financial services.

I guess it isn't, because a Klan leader isn't literally directly oppressing billions of people. But, seriously, if you love and live with someone, you are tacitly approving of who they are. Stop it with the Hallmark movie bullshit you're using to act like Grimes is a victim here.

Also, not for nothing, but if you want to play the "let's be pedantic about semantics" game, ALL SIMILES ARE METAPHORS.

People are dying because the shit you casually defend out of absolute ignorance. When people get mad at you for it, you don't get to avoid hearing them by tone policing and gaslighting them. Grow the fuck up or shut the fuck up.

Also, following "hate to break it to you" with some half-assed, underinformed, subjective naivety does not exactly make you look as smart as you clearly think it does. I am not required to give "contemplation to a counter argument" that is poorly constructed, in bad faith and ignores the actual definitions of the words being used. The fact that y'all want your centrist ignorance to be treated as valid doesn't mean I, or anyone else, "self-defeat" when we respect ourselves enough not to indulge you.

Musk became a billionaire because his parents made a fortune off of fucking conflict emeralds, and he's used that money to buy good ideas other people had. Also, I work in the blockchain and crypto space, so please don't try to pull that bullshit that his interest in crypto is humanitarian. He's manipulating the market that unbanked people rely on to funnel more money into his hands. He's spending an unholy amount of money for his vanity campaign to go to Mars that he could actually be using to help the people oppressed by the wealth disparity he has made worse. He has contributed to COVID-denial and anti-vaccine propaganda, while busting unions and demanding his employees sacrifice their own health during a global pandemic. Let's indulge the claim that it is possible to BECOME a billionaire as a leftist (though Musk is not one and has never claimed to be). It is not possible to REMAIN one. J.K. Rowling (TERF, though she may be) was one and no longer is because she gave away so much of it (and she's not even a leftist!). It is not possible to hoard wealth and also be a leftist. The ideologies are intrinsically at odds. It is also not possible to DEFEND wealth hoarding, as Grimes has done by defending one of the world's worst examples of it, and still be a leftist. It'd be like a hardcore vegan marrying the head of Tyson chicken - they can invent whatever dissonance they need to to live with themselves, but nobody else is required to believe it. If you encourage and support something with your actions, what you say you believe means fuck-all.

Also, does this blithering fuckshit think any actual leftist is campaigning for "enforced farming"? Jesus, maybe listen to someone other than ol' Blood Emerald McShitcoin over here when formulating perspectives you know you'll vomit into the discourse.

New proposal: Let's not give any attention to the politics of someone using the phrase "is really not a vibe" while explaining them.

So, you understand that when most leftists talk about "communism", they're not talking about "e.g. North Korea, former USSR, China, etc.", but felt the need to be pedantic and condescending about it anyway?

Of course you did, because you're a petulant and insecure, desperately craving attention but too fucking lazy to do anything good to earn it, so you act out, attracting negative attention. You tell yourself it's what you want, but it just contributes to the aforementioned insecurities. You'll keep this cycle going until you harm yourself or someone else, probably for the rest of your life. You'll tell yourself it's everyone else's fault - the liberals, the leftists, the people who rejected you in high school - but I want you to know you are actively choosing this. Break the cycle. Admit you're miserable. Accept that you're not some put-upon genius who understands the world better than everyone else. Go to therapy. Experiment with empathy. Be better.

And I'm sure she thinks Elon is the guy for that job!